dodge comparison

[stroker221]

#DPCCONVERTERS

Yes I know I know haha. Trying to hold off until after I can get some much needed fuel

 

[Powerstroke Man 6.4]

Geeearhead race and a triple disc tc from Russ moore. Not sure who builds their converters though...

weird GH performance on minimaxx and a Rudys Stage 4 with RDP converter (on my buddies truck) when it locks that thing locks and throws you back into your seat.

 

[matt92idi]

yes, you want the converter to engage quickly to cut down on wear but you don't need to be earth shattering at light throttle

it all depends on tuning

From what I've seen out of Friends truck that's what destroys his converter. He goes though converters weekly it seemed like. Truck made serious power but and ran ********** tunes so I know the shifts and lock up was very snappy.

 

[Powerstroke Man 6.4]

yup, if you WANT, you can make the converter absolutely rattle your teeth on lockup, S wrap the leaf springs on every part throttle shift, etc.

But good tuning only bangs the gears really hard at WOT. The first time you mash it on a big race tune prior to relearn, it REALLY hammers.

bump this back up.

So would having the TC lockup more firm than normal, hold a little more power?

I just rode in a all stock 2WD CCSB flatbed 3500 09 6.7 cummins and I think I know what the OP is talking about.

to me I think at about 2800-3000 rpm (4th) its out of the power band makes the 5th gear shift drops back in the power band and the TC locks and you pull back in your seat.

I can say for bone stock that thing has a strong bottom end (feels like a tuned 11-14 6.7 bottom end) IMO.

Raced my buddies stock 15 6.7 F-250 CCSB 4WD PS from a stop boosted launch, we both launched even and we both gripped and the cummins pulled away, at about 65 the 15 slowly creeped by.

 

[stroker221]

bump this back up.

So would having the TC lockup more firm than normal, hold a little more power?

I just rode in a all stock 2WD CCSB flatbed 3500 09 6.7 cummins and I think I know what the OP is talking about.

to me I think at about 2800-3000 rpm (4th) its out of the power band makes the 5th gear shift drops back in the power band and the TC locks and you pull back in your seat.

I can say for bone stock that thing has a strong bottom end (feels like a tuned 11-14 6.7 bottom end) IMO.

Raced my buddies stock 15 6.7 F-250 CCSB 4WD PS from a stop boosted launch, we both launched even and we both gripped and the cummins pulled away, at about 65 the 15 slowly creeped by.

Maybe it has something to do with a very narrow torque curve at low rpm? I haven't had a chance to ride in a 6.7 Cummins but if they are still locking up and hitting o/d like the older trans then its not just because its 30yr old technology. It just makes me think that's why Cummins are such good back halfers BC of that shift going into o/d. It hits soo much harder than any other trans ive seen and launches the truck forward. Its not earth shattering or anything its just very quick and firm.

 

[drunk on diesel]

yep, lots of torque and load, especially locked up in OD

a 6.4 with a boat load of bottom end fuel will have that same feel, it just won't be pretty to look at! LOL

 

[mandkole]

I recently had a similar conversation with my buddy who just freshened my trans... this was my interpretation.

Generally speaking, the smaller displacement Cummins doesn't make the torque down low like the larger v8 does. If the apply is equal the higher torque motor will 'feel' softer. From what Ive been told, there is nothing better inside a RE -based converter vs. 4R or 5R.. the RE is old school like the E4 with on-off apply.

Also, the stocker 4R or 5R uses the pulse width (PWM) apply so it feels softer, and so its more flexible in tow conditions to keep engine speed up. However, once its tuned on, the TCC apply is often goes from 0 to 100% fast to protect the clutches under higher power conditions. Using AE, you should be able to see the apply rate. At part throttle conditions, TCC apply is more noticeable (not aggressive) than at full throttle.

 

[drunk on diesel]

uhh... watch the tachometer on that little I6 vs. your big V8 some time...

5.9's make bottom end torque... 6.7's are unreal on torque down low.

yes, the lack of tuning sophistication w/ the converter apply amplifies the sensation

but the biggest thing is that with most 4sp dodge tuning, there is zero torque converter apply until 4th gear, and then you actually feel ALL of that Cummins torque in the highest gear where it's at its greatest. so it's like "WHOA!!!!"

when you put a 2-5 lockup tune on a 6.4 with aggressive line pressure and short shift times, you'll get some saucer eyes... people are afraid the transmission is going to fall out of the truck because it's pounding like a sledgehammer on every shift @ WOT

but you have the ability to soften things up at part throttle. and the adaptive nature of the tuning softens up the WOT characteristics a little. so it just doesn't seem so extreme

whereas the Cummins is going to apply that converter lockup hard every time, and it's going to come after 4 gears of soggy converter inefficiency and pin you to the seat, so it feels extreme

I recently had a similar conversation with my buddy who just freshened my trans... this was my interpretation.

Generally speaking, the smaller displacement Cummins doesn't make the torque down low like the larger v8 does. If the apply is equal the higher torque motor will 'feel' softer. From what Ive been told, there is nothing better inside a RE -based converter vs. 4R or 5R.. the RE is old school like the E4 with on-off apply.

Also, the stocker 4R or 5R uses the pulse width (PWM) apply so it feels softer, and so its more flexible in tow conditions to keep engine speed up. However, once its tuned on, the TCC apply is often goes from 0 to 100% fast to protect the clutches under higher power conditions. Using AE, you should be able to see the apply rate. At part throttle conditions, TCC apply is more noticeable (not aggressive) than at full throttle.

 

[mandkole]

but the biggest thing is that with most 4sp dodge tuning, there is zero torque converter apply until 4th gear, and then you actually feel ALL of that Cummins torque in the highest gear where it's at its greatest. so it's like "WHOA!!!!"

If that's all were really talking about here, then agreed.