Glow plug system findings and questions

[firehunter]

I have had a very random no start issue, only 3 times in the last two months. Complete no start with tons of white smoke from the tailpipe (and under the hood but that's another question...). After waiting around 5 - 15 minutes I go try it again it coughs, sputters, then runs completely normal (very good) for a week or two then no start again. Always with white smoke. Irregardless of ambient temps. Sometimes the first start of the day, one time coming back from lunch in the afternoon.

I was told to check the glow plug system. Between a manual and a youtube video (ugh, I know) I was able to use my DMM and found some things out. GPR - Very first time the key is turned on in the morning I had 12.5 volts to one side of the relay but only 10.0 volts on the other (going to the GP's). After the relay shut off I had my kid cycle the key off for one minute, then back on. I swear I heard the relay click but zero volts on the GP side - triple checked grounds, nothing. Another key cycle and still no volts on the GP side, always 12.5 on the battery side. I buttoned everything up, tried to start it with no joy - just copious white smoke. I cycled the key again and it fired up perfectly normal, white smoke cleared quickly and runs perfectly. GP's - I used the ohm meter to check the GP's at the UVCH connections. My information is that they should be between 0.5 and 2.0 ohm's (someone care to verify this?). The front, divers side pin showed 2.8 ohms and the rear two pins on the passenger side showed open connections. The other 5 showed between 0.5 and 1.0 ohms each.

Just for background, I have never had the valve covers off in the 196K miles on the truck. Never needed to! :rockon:

I know I need to replace all the GP's, it's time, no doubt. What do y'all think about the 10 volts and intermittent function of the relay? Normal or ??? I was always told that relays either work or don't but this one seems to be in the middle?

Other thoughts on the white smoke, no start?

TIA. int:

 

[Tom S]

I think 2.5 volts drop across that relay is a whole lot. Not working other times would certainly convince me to replace it.

 

[JLDickmon]

I think 2.5 volts drop across that relay is a whole lot. Not working other times would certainly convince me to replace it.

:whs:

 

[95powersmoker]

I'd replace that relay... I'd just do a new relay and plugs... It's easy enough.

Also, a clicking relay doesn't necessarily mean a working relay..

 

[bad12jr]

Jump a screw driver across for about thirty seconds and see how she starts.

Sent from my DROID X2 chillin somewhere

 

[moose99psd]

oddly enough ive had this exact same issue. except now it works flawlessly. it wouldnt start forever and i had to use jumper cables to bypass the relay to get it started, and then one day it just fixed itself and has been starting ever since..

 

[firehunter]

What a b!tch! I am done with the passenger side GP's and relay is replaced. How do you keep from knocking little bits of dirt onto the valve train? The deep 10mm socket keeps getting wedged in there! Yes I am using a piece of tubing to remove and replace the GP. I pulled Beru's out? Were Beru's put in originally? I figured they would have been motorcraft? This particular truck was originally sold in Canada and later imported. The pins didn't lie, two of the GP's were completely bad.

On to the driver's side GP's...

 

[neverkickn]

Those are motorcraft plugs. You can only break the GP's loose with the socket, then you have to use the tubing to unthread them the rest of the way. I just put the socket on the GP enough that it grabs but off enough that I can angle the socket to clear the rocker.

 

[firehunter]

Those are motorcraft plugs. You can only break the GP's loose with the socket, then you have to use the tubing to unthread them the rest of the way. I just put the socket on the GP enough that it grabs but off enough that I can angle the socket to clear the rocker.

Thanks for confirming Beru = Motorcraft. The rest of that I learned this morning.

 

[firehunter]

You guys are pi$$in' me off now...I was taking a lunch break and reading more about these GP's and I read multiple places that Autolites are crap and that is what I just put in - passenger side only. I need to get this on the road and reliable so I needed to switch these out immediately and Autolites are all they stock in the nearest, very small town. The driver's side GP's all pinned OK except for one that was 2.8 ohms. What do you think about just leaving it as-is with old Beru's in the driver's side and new Autolites in the passenger side, and new GPR for the next 6 months until I get a chance to do injectors then replace all the GP's with Beru at that time? Certainly the reports of the tips breaking off the autolites weren't on new ones? Only after a few years?

Quick thoughts? I won't dive into the driver's side if I don't need to!

 

[firehunter]

Disregard...I read enough about it. Autolites are coming out, motorcraft are going in ASAP. Motorcrafts are already ordered.

 

[Tom S]

Disregard...I read enough about it. Autolites are coming out, motorcraft are going in ASAP. Motorcrafts are already ordered.

I know it sucks but I would do the same. I do not ever want to fight one of those glowplug disasters.

 

[firehunter]

Sorry, I need to bring this one back to the top. GPR and all 8 GP's replaced, new, with Beru glow plugs. I have still had the same no start twice in the last week. When it does finally fire it is crisp and clean, runs great. The no start is always with the white smoke that makes your eyes water.

I recently had issues with the wife's PSD that y'all helped a bunch with and we got solved completely - thanks! Just clarifying this is my 2000 (in sig) that is doing this and not her truck.

TIA for thoughts and ideas.

 

[BigRed97]

intermittent ground to the GPR possibly....(ground is delivered via the PCM)

when it pulls its no start sh!t, have some one cycle the key while you check the ground supply at the GPR. if its there, cycle it a few times to see if it comes and goes.

IF at anytime its not supplied a ground check the harness for chaffing between the GPR and PCM(specifically over the LH valve cover)

if that looks good ohm the wire between the GPR and PCM

if that checks out too, try to find an extra PCM to borrow/swap for a few weeks to see i the problem goes away

 

[Arisley]

How many miles on those injectors?

 

[firehunter]

197K and counting. GP system is brand new and working correctly - that has been confirmed. I have been doing a lot of searches in this forum and am leaning towards tired injectors. I found a couple of posts by Dave (golfer) that pretty accurately describe what I have going on.

Yesterday I stood on it twice and did runs to 85 mph, it still builds 25 lbs boost and EGT's never went above 1100*. Drove a few more miles, shut the truck off and visited with family for 90 minutes, and it did it's hard start crap. I have a starting sequence kind of dialed in now where I listen to the engine closely while cranking, it usually tries to start on one or two cylinders then just cranks. If I keep cranking it will crank forever and not start. If I immediately turn the key off and quickly try it again (NOT waiting for the GP's) it usually fires off quickly and rather crisply - almost too crisply IMO - almost violently for just a second then idles perfectly normal and runs excellent as long as I keep it running. When it does start "too crisply" is when I get the white smoke out of the tailpipe just for a couple of seconds then perfectly normal after that. It did make the normal amount of black smoke on the WFO runs yesterday.

From my searches it seems like an injector or two might be "hanging" or "sticking" open and letting too much fuel in the cylinders? When the other cylinders fire it takes a second or two to clear things up and equal the fuel/oil out and runs fine after that.

Feel free to chime in because I don't want to have a problem, throw $1,500 injectors at it and still have the same problem. Don't get me wrong! I have NO issue with forced upgrades but I don't want the problem to still be there after the upgrades.

TIA (as always)

 

[Old OutLaw]

Well, you could try the oil in fuel... go to Walmart and get some of that 2-stroke oil (blue jug), and add 1 oz per gallon to the fuel in your tank and run it, I've been doing that for a while, and it runs noticeably smoother....

and it starts better also....