ICP 1000psi and DC 64.7%

SkySki Jason · Feb 10, 2013

'00 Excursion in sig.

Truck has been running great since engine transplant (from F350 in sig) with T4/S366 and Gearhead tunes. It was making 2600psi and DC never went over 40%. Almost 5k miles on Delo 400 - dipstick shows ~1qrt low. Also 5k on new ICP sensor and (Alliant) injector o-rings.

I did a 0-80mph run in 140 tune yesterday and it felt a little weak. A couple miles up the road, I took off from a red light and had NO POWER. Flip the AF Scangauge to ICP/DC and find loooow ICP and high DC - ultimately it would not make 1000psi and easily maxed out DC trying.

It still runs smooth and quiet, it starts easily, does not smoke and has no external oil leaks. When it is cold, it will build ICP and run pretty strong - but DC is way above normal. After it warms up, it loses power but continues to idle smooth and re-start easily.

What is wrong???????? :shrug:

fordfreak4life · Feb 10, 2013

Pump

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Justin@DP-Tuner · Feb 10, 2013

fordfreak4life said:
Pump

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Possibly, but it could also be injectors.

Pull the valve covers and watch the oil spitting out of the injectors.

SkySki Jason · Feb 10, 2013

Justin@DP-Tuner said:
Possibly, but it could also be injectors.

Pull the valve covers and watch the oil spitting out of the injectors.

Wouldn't injector(s) cause it to run poorly? It is as smooth as glass - just no power...

I had the injectors out <5k miles ago (they were new from Alliant ~70k miles ago). They looked good on the outside

and went back in with new Alliant o-rings.

This was an all-of-a-sudden event. I fully expected to see 2.5 gals of oil on the ground when I pulled over. Something 'let go'. I did not know this was a possible failure mode for HPOP - but I have heard this a few times now... :fustrate:

I have AE. Any suggestions before I start taking stuff apart?

Top end oil change???? LOL

lincolnlocker · Feb 10, 2013

you have 5k on the oil you are running now? dino or synthetic oil?
live life full throttle

Justin@DP-Tuner · Feb 10, 2013

SkySki Jason said:
Wouldn't injector(s) cause it to run poorly? It is as smooth as glass - just no power...

I had the injectors out <5k miles ago (they were new from Alliant ~70k miles ago). They looked good on the outside and went back in with new Alliant o-rings.

This was an all-of-a-sudden event. I fully expected to see 2.5 gals of oil on the ground when I pulled over. Something 'let go'. I did not know this was a possible failure mode for HPOP - but I have heard this a few times now... :fustrate:

I have AE. Any suggestions before I start taking stuff apart?

Top end oil change???? LOL

I did not realize your injectors were so new. It most likely is not the injectors, but that is one other spot where you can lose HPO.

TyCorr · Feb 10, 2013

Well if it isnt.the pump or.the injectors, what could.it.be? Trash in the ipr? An oring let.go?

neverkickn · Feb 10, 2013

Justin@DP-Tuner said:
I did not realize your injectors were so new. It most likely is not the injectors, but that is one other spot where you can lose HPO.

Along with ipr orings or injector orings.

lincolnlocker · Feb 10, 2013

TyCorr said:
Well if it isnt.the pump or.the injectors, what could.it.be? Trash in the ipr? An oring let.go?

yes or chitty oil... he could have nicked an oring and it finally gave up life. hell that piece of oring could be stuck in the ipr and holding it wide open.. could be all of the above.. bad oring with a stuck open ipr and a pump on its last leg... never heard of one struggling to make 1000psi.. so it could happen i guess..

i never experienced that bad of a decrease in psi when i ran delo but i could tell something was up around the 4k mark when i ran delo so i got a scanner and monitored the psi for a long time and sure as hell it would drop a little psi and raise the dc... it was a bit worse in the winter time so my oci's went from 5k in the summer to 2500 in the winter.. instead of adding the quart of oil at the 3k mark in summer that it used, i added a quart of stp with the zddp and the psi drop quit.

live life full throttle

neverkickn · Feb 10, 2013

I find it hard to believe that the oil could be trashed that bad in 5k, but if you say it is possible then I will take your work for it.

This is assuming that the OP did change the oil when he re ringed the injectors.

lincolnlocker · Feb 10, 2013

neverkickn said:
I find it hard to believe that the oil could be trashed that bad in 5k, but if you say it is possible then I will take your work for it.

This is assuming that the OP did change the oil when he re ringed the injectors.

yeah i doubt its that horrible too.. i was just saying it basically could be a couple things combined.

live life full throttle

Gearhead · Feb 10, 2013

check the IPR nut....

CurtisF · Feb 10, 2013

Gearhead said:
check the IPR nut....

I'll second that. IPR or the nut on the back of the IPR is most likely the culprit.

If it was injectors, or even the o-rings, you would see problems elsewhere too.

At 5K miles, oil is old but it still does the job.

If it was the HPOP, you would see problems elsewhere too.

All indicators point to an IPR issue.

SkySki Jason · Feb 11, 2013

Thanks guys.

Yes, oil changed with inj. o-rings (Motorcraft filter) and after looking it has been closer to <4k miles. UOA's for this engine have always come back good with dino oil (Delo/Rotella) at 5k mile OCI.

The tin nut is tight.

The longblock has <80k miles, but the HPOP (it was a rebuilt Int'l pump in '05) has >200k and the IPR was original with 380k. IPR was overhauled at engine rebuild.

I'm gonna remove and dis assemble IPR tomorow and hope for the best. I'd love to replace IPR and upgrade HPOP, but there is no budget for that at the moment...

Matt, I'm loving these tunes!! (and Irate's T4/S366!!!)

SkySki Jason · Feb 11, 2013

Here is a quick video after it warmed up:

SES is from P1211 code. (duh!!)

Before operating temp, I saw ICP closer to 2000psi (and better power) - but DC was still way higher than normal...

I just finished project number 7672324 and moved it out of the shop. The X is going in and the IPR is coming out.

lincolnlocker · Feb 11, 2013

were you driving a constant 40mph or did you throttle up and down?

SkySki Jason · Feb 11, 2013

lincolnlocker said:
were you driving a constant 40mph or did you throttle up and down?

That video was partial throttle going up the mountain. Additional throttle made no difference and less throttle produced lower ICP/DC numbers. Coasting/idling on the way down the mountain gave me something like 14% DC and ~500psi.

I'm gonna go thru this now, but it looks like I'll land at either IPR or HPOP being the cause. Any thoughts?

(thanks again!!)

lincolnlocker · Feb 11, 2013

when you where climbing did you keep the throttle steady or did you apply and release the throttle? i noticed at one point the icp tanked to 900psi then shot back up? did you by chance let out of it at that point? icp will fluctuate a little, like 50psi.... a couple hundred would lead me to believe just the ipr being week... but it should still be able to go above a couple grand and stay above it... either the ipr is that bad, a couple orings got nicked and are letting hpo bleed off, or your pump is straight up giving up life... might want to just change the oil to be on the safe side and see what it does.. or get a quart or more of stp with zddp and see if that changes anything...