BS Hauler
New member
It almost looks like a fuel contamination issue with water.
If you've had a 6.4 crack pistons please read
- Thread starter escore
- Start date
First off I never said my truck was 19,000. Or overweight some of you just assumed that. My truck is heavy, and yes it has the box which is a aerodynamic issue, but as I said before the truck has always been with in its spec right around 80% of it. Does that contribute to the issue of course, and I know that and understand it. But there its no excuse for what has happened to me. If you think it is you need to get your head out of your Ford loyal ass and realize that they do not care about your loyalty. I am reposting the time line I did a few pages back because I realized even I made some mistakes in which failure is what. I am always trying to post this stuff while at work so I screwed it up in a rush. I am also putting some images on here for the guys that want to play the same water card Ford does. My issue is not contaminated fuel, or water. The fuel system has been apart every time, everything has been gone through. Its simply a piston issue. I am not here to figure out why I already know why. As for why it made 100k that too is obviously because that was a brand new engine not a junk reman. Some guys in here are already smart enough to have figured that out. If you are familiar with these issues, and willing to provide a statement, pictures, paperwork of any kind, please PM me. I will win this case, and when I do it opens many others up to do the same.
The first failure happened at 102,000 just out of warranty. A long block was installed by a Ford dealer full of idiots in Oklahoma. It was claimed to be a stuck injector. I should mention the fact that they wanted to reuse all but one injector in the new long block, I refused and paid for all 8 to be replaced since they blamed the issue on that. I went above and beyond at every breakdown to be sure everything was replaced and done right. Then 30 days later at about 105,000 it failed again in the same manor this time in Vegas. Again to a Ford dealer who put the blame on the previous dealer for not changing the fuel pump. I never saw any parts of the truck on either of these failures but the both had the same symptoms.
The third failure came with a $20,000 bill and a compete engine with another complete warranty. That is a complete drop in replacement, new pump, injectors, everything. 5 months and about 15,000 miles later if fails again. I tow it 800 miles home to a dealer where I can take my time and be there daily to be sure it gets fixed right. At this point I still know nothing of the piston issues of the 6.4. The dealer promises to work with me to be sure the truck is warrantied and get it fixed correctly. They don't they refuse warranty and claim it to be a stuck injector due to bad fuel. I loose my cool and promptly tow it to a private owned diesel shop. Upon finishing the tear down it was found that a piston was simply cracked in half. No injectors stuck, nothing melted. It still had oil all over the piston and cylinder walls, and still had carbon on top of the pistons. Everything was fine just cracked in half, except for the fact that the idiots at the dealer left my fuel pump torn open so it corroded and bent the hell out of the compressor wheels on my turbo. We rebuilt the engine with the same injectors, had to use a new fuel pump, and did some other things. ******d it, studded it, ceramic coated the pistons, and tuned the truck down some.
It ran for a year and about 20,000 miles and did the exact same thing again. This time when we called for warranty on the short block that was purchased from Ford they said that unless it spun a crank bearing they will not warranty a 6.4 short block. Another words we know the pistons are garbage so we just keep blowing those claims off. They use the fuel card as a way to put it on the customer. In my case I see these issues way faster and more often than most because my truck is an F450 box truck that runs around at about 80% of its max capacity at all times. you would never see it this often in a pick up.
This is a serious thing, Ford is ripping people off, and the two blocks I have are proof of it. What I need is expert opinions that know this is a huge well known issue, and will speak on it. I am also looking for customers of Ford with pictures, and bills that show these issues so I can prove it is a very prevalent issue. I want to go to court with at least 24 documented cases of this happening so I can show a jury that this is a prevalent thing that Ford is ignoring, and even installing more engines and parts with the same problems that come with a warranty they already know they will not honor. I have lost a lot more than money in this battle, I have almost lost my business, a chance at buying a home, and a few employees. You can call me an idiot for fixing the truck over and over but when your that far in, and a Ford dealer keeps giving you a warranty and claiming it is fixed right you keep telling yourself it has to be right this time. I have obviously now discovered the International Max Force pistons, which even more tell the tale that Ford is ripping people off and covering up the trash they are selling. A cab and chassis should of had those pistons from day one. The truck is rated as something like a 26,000 lb GCVWR. The worst part is I have owned nothing but Fords my whole life and ALWAYS serviced them at a dealer or myself with ALL ford parts. I was a die hard, I am that ******* that loves his 6.0 and will take it to the grave, I have 5 fords right now, and every time I get in one of them I want to vomit now.
The first failure happened at 102,000 just out of warranty. A long block was installed by a Ford dealer full of idiots in Oklahoma. It was claimed to be a stuck injector. I should mention the fact that they wanted to reuse all but one injector in the new long block, I refused and paid for all 8 to be replaced since they blamed the issue on that. I went above and beyond at every breakdown to be sure everything was replaced and done right. Then 30 days later at about 105,000 it failed again in the same manor this time in Vegas. Again to a Ford dealer who put the blame on the previous dealer for not changing the fuel pump. I never saw any parts of the truck on either of these failures but the both had the same symptoms.
The third failure came with a $20,000 bill and a compete engine with another complete warranty. That is a complete drop in replacement, new pump, injectors, everything. 5 months and about 15,000 miles later if fails again. I tow it 800 miles home to a dealer where I can take my time and be there daily to be sure it gets fixed right. At this point I still know nothing of the piston issues of the 6.4. The dealer promises to work with me to be sure the truck is warrantied and get it fixed correctly. They don't they refuse warranty and claim it to be a stuck injector due to bad fuel. I loose my cool and promptly tow it to a private owned diesel shop. Upon finishing the tear down it was found that a piston was simply cracked in half. No injectors stuck, nothing melted. It still had oil all over the piston and cylinder walls, and still had carbon on top of the pistons. Everything was fine just cracked in half, except for the fact that the idiots at the dealer left my fuel pump torn open so it corroded and bent the hell out of the compressor wheels on my turbo. We rebuilt the engine with the same injectors, had to use a new fuel pump, and did some other things. ******d it, studded it, ceramic coated the pistons, and tuned the truck down some.
It ran for a year and about 20,000 miles and did the exact same thing again. This time when we called for warranty on the short block that was purchased from Ford they said that unless it spun a crank bearing they will not warranty a 6.4 short block. Another words we know the pistons are garbage so we just keep blowing those claims off. They use the fuel card as a way to put it on the customer. In my case I see these issues way faster and more often than most because my truck is an F450 box truck that runs around at about 80% of its max capacity at all times. you would never see it this often in a pick up.
This is a serious thing, Ford is ripping people off, and the two blocks I have are proof of it. What I need is expert opinions that know this is a huge well known issue, and will speak on it. I am also looking for customers of Ford with pictures, and bills that show these issues so I can prove it is a very prevalent issue. I want to go to court with at least 24 documented cases of this happening so I can show a jury that this is a prevalent thing that Ford is ignoring, and even installing more engines and parts with the same problems that come with a warranty they already know they will not honor. I have lost a lot more than money in this battle, I have almost lost my business, a chance at buying a home, and a few employees. You can call me an idiot for fixing the truck over and over but when your that far in, and a Ford dealer keeps giving you a warranty and claiming it is fixed right you keep telling yourself it has to be right this time. I have obviously now discovered the International Max Force pistons, which even more tell the tale that Ford is ripping people off and covering up the trash they are selling. A cab and chassis should of had those pistons from day one. The truck is rated as something like a 26,000 lb GCVWR. The worst part is I have owned nothing but Fords my whole life and ALWAYS serviced them at a dealer or myself with ALL ford parts. I was a die hard, I am that ******* that loves his 6.0 and will take it to the grave, I have 5 fords right now, and every time I get in one of them I want to vomit now.
Attachments
I don't think they should have much of any...
They built motors specd out for their HP/TRQ ratings. Ford slapped alot more EGR and tuned them motors to run at peak HP.
Anything I've found in a IH chassis that shares similar failures to the 6.0/6.4 usually have double the hours...
A motor is only as Strong as its weakest point. If we are running it at beyond load, beyond rated hp, it's weakest point is Going to show.
Luke@MillerPerformance
Member
Sounds like the reman motors are recycling pistons.
Or selling even more inferior castings.
To the op, moving forward, go to a diesel shop, not a powerstroke type guy but a real shop that builds everything and have them put you a motor together. Coated pistons of the aftermarket type should get you moving. And stay moving.
Im not going to share the opinion that you are abusing the setup. Its crap obviously from Ford.
AirFishAutomotive
New member
had a ford reman show up today, all new pistons
I didnt think they were using old cores. You'd be hard pressed to find a good pistin in a 6.4 thats ran for very long.
I'm sticking to the theory (since ive got no proof) that the castings ate getting crappier each batch. Ford wants out and under from the 6l and the 6.4...sell em junk they'll go elsewhere.
nighthawk285
New member
I'm not a 6.4 guy and haven't done but a handful of jobs on them but do all of them have that big of a spray pattern on the pistons with stock tuning? Usually I don't see spray patterns that far outside of the fuel bowl unless it's running a hot tune with the 6.0s and 7.3s I've seen.....I'm not trying to imply anything I'm just curious.
ckrueg
Member
I believe stock pilot injections are up to 50-60° so maybe it's that? Also the post injections probably are late enough to be outside the bowl.
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Luke@MillerPerformance
Member
I have an supposedly stock VP 24 Valve apart right now that has a spray pattern worse than any common rail I've seen. It blew up from a Fram oil filter that came apart and the guy ran it until it stopped.
The IH coat pistons should hold up fine. I don't understand why the one shop coated a set of stock Ford pistons for you. That's like coating stock LBZ pistons.
Now if you're breaking IH pistons then something is a muck.
I am currently rebuilding with Max Force delipped, coated pistons. I wish I had known all this before. And ford should be selling them with those pistons at the least. Tycorr gets it. The pistons are garbage. And yes I am confident the remans had used pistons. And yes I am towing a trailer behind this truck, again not over its weight limits. If any one has any repair bills, photos, anything I would sure like to hear from you. 724 288 6636, [email protected]
Did you by chance have any of your reman injectors checked out by a different shop like RCD or MPD? 2 years ago I bought 5 reman injectors and had them checked out at RCD and all 5 remans failed but the three originals passed. Also if I remember correctly on one of the other forums there was a guy that cut open a ford piston and you could see flaws and voids inside it.
sonic blue l
New member
never saw a cracked 6.4 piston in person.(especially stock trucks) (mind you I am forget full)
#1 failure is lifters. (stock)
worn off rocker arms from lack of maintenance is second. (stock and tuned)
Have had rods outside block due to hydrolock from failed egr cooler. (stock, dually)
had piston pin wear out. (*******)
front cover cavitation taking out bearings, resulting in so much crank end play that the ring gear chewed into the transmission case. (stock service truck)
bent rod and hole burnt through piston. (h&s xrt pro)
melted pistons, with all injector tips blown off. (sct livewire)
only cracked piston ive had was on a 7.3. that had gone through multiple turbo's (factory with a banks waste gate, chiped (piggy back chip on pcm, on a 550 service truck that a 12,000 lb jack would not lift the ass end). so not exactly the pistons fault.
7.3 with failed lifters, 6.0l failed lifters, but 6.4 is the most prone to failed lifters.
7.3 with loose cam retainment plate bolts (took out cmp sensors) (econoline)
7.3 with cylinder porosity (econoline)
7.3 idi failed oil cooler resulting in coolant contamination of the oiling system
7.3 dusting, 7.3 piston pin worn out due to missing oil squirter
6.0l with slipped crank trigger wheel
6.7 with failed lifter, however the engine had a short block replaced previously by a hack dealership, so cant conclusively blame the lifter as there were so many things wrong with that engine assembly (bolts wrong places, etc. basic hack job)
So funny thing is I have seen some weird ****, but not cracked pistons. ive seen reman engines come with cracked heads, half the cylinder wall with no cross hatch, etc.
back ground ive worked on 7.3's while they were under warranty so ive been around for a couple years.
With that said, a tuned truck needs a wider bowl, I like my ih pistons
#1 failure is lifters. (stock)
worn off rocker arms from lack of maintenance is second. (stock and tuned)
Have had rods outside block due to hydrolock from failed egr cooler. (stock, dually)
had piston pin wear out. (*******)
front cover cavitation taking out bearings, resulting in so much crank end play that the ring gear chewed into the transmission case. (stock service truck)
bent rod and hole burnt through piston. (h&s xrt pro)
melted pistons, with all injector tips blown off. (sct livewire)
only cracked piston ive had was on a 7.3. that had gone through multiple turbo's (factory with a banks waste gate, chiped (piggy back chip on pcm, on a 550 service truck that a 12,000 lb jack would not lift the ass end). so not exactly the pistons fault.
7.3 with failed lifters, 6.0l failed lifters, but 6.4 is the most prone to failed lifters.
7.3 with loose cam retainment plate bolts (took out cmp sensors) (econoline)
7.3 with cylinder porosity (econoline)
7.3 idi failed oil cooler resulting in coolant contamination of the oiling system
7.3 dusting, 7.3 piston pin worn out due to missing oil squirter
6.0l with slipped crank trigger wheel
6.7 with failed lifter, however the engine had a short block replaced previously by a hack dealership, so cant conclusively blame the lifter as there were so many things wrong with that engine assembly (bolts wrong places, etc. basic hack job)
So funny thing is I have seen some weird ****, but not cracked pistons. ive seen reman engines come with cracked heads, half the cylinder wall with no cross hatch, etc.
back ground ive worked on 7.3's while they were under warranty so ive been around for a couple years.
With that said, a tuned truck needs a wider bowl, I like my ih pistons
sootie
Well-known member
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never saw a cracked 6.4 piston in person.(especially stock trucks) (mind you I am forget full)
#1 failure is lifters. (stock)
worn off rocker arms from lack of maintenance is second. (stock and tuned)
Have had rods outside block due to hydrolock from failed egr cooler. (stock, dually)
had piston pin wear out. (*******)
front cover cavitation taking out bearings, resulting in so much crank end play that the ring gear chewed into the transmission case. (stock service truck)
bent rod and hole burnt through piston. (h&s xrt pro)
melted pistons, with all injector tips blown off. (sct livewire)
only cracked piston ive had was on a 7.3. that had gone through multiple turbo's (factory with a banks waste gate, chiped (piggy back chip on pcm, on a 550 service truck that a 12,000 lb jack would not lift the ass end). so not exactly the pistons fault.
7.3 with failed lifters, 6.0l failed lifters, but 6.4 is the most prone to failed lifters.
7.3 with loose cam retainment plate bolts (took out cmp sensors) (econoline)
7.3 with cylinder porosity (econoline)
7.3 idi failed oil cooler resulting in coolant contamination of the oiling system
7.3 dusting, 7.3 piston pin worn out due to missing oil squirter
6.0l with slipped crank trigger wheel
6.7 with failed lifter, however the engine had a short block replaced previously by a hack dealership, so cant conclusively blame the lifter as there were so many things wrong with that engine assembly (bolts wrong places, etc. basic hack job)
So funny thing is I have seen some weird ****, but not cracked pistons. ive seen reman engines come with cracked heads, half the cylinder wall with no cross hatch, etc.
back ground ive worked on 7.3's while they were under warranty so ive been around for a couple years.
With that said, a tuned truck needs a wider bowl, I like my ih pistons
I can't believe you havent seen cracked pistons. ive seen more cracked pistons than i can count... and up there where you say the bent rod and hole in piston (xrt pro), likely was a hung injector. i have seen that on stock six fours a ton as well.
Unless he eorks one of those places where they dont actually repair 6.4s other than external diagnosis. Some ford dealers never opened up a 6.4. Their owner or service writer would swap full assemblies. My local dealership didnt even bother. They would call ford and they'd send an engine. Junk.
Luke@MillerPerformance
Member
A lot of the smaller dealerships around here don't have a tech that's certified for opening them up beyond headgaskets.
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