Injector Ramblings from 400/400 thread

[TARM]

Nate,

I know we had talked about this as well. When the time comes I will have no issues running your 400s when I finally out grow these 200s which will be when I finally go to compounds.

I always thought todayll edm nozzles were the same hence why I asked the reason for changing builder. At the same time I see no reason it would not be possible. There have been other manf in the past IIRC.

 

[Cat_rebel]

Wasn't Matt running a set of 300% nozzles from John Link a few years ago?

 

[TARM]

I was speaking strictly edm not sure about anything else such as EH or even micro driling

 

[UNLIMITED_DIESEL]

Yes Matt is running a set of John Links nozzles. John never rated them by %. Matt's nozzles are 7x.014", and they flow like a 400%. If Link was still around I would absolutley consider him a good source for nozzles.

FWIW, I don't think that there is a single injector builder out there that can say they haven't had a 400% or even a 200% nozzle crack on a rare occasion. I'm sure TARM, PTSUPERD, and many others can all elaborate on what its like to have a nozzle break. It's frustrating, and time consuming, but until we come up with something different, it's something we are all going to be subjected to if you decide to go that route.

You can only open a 7mm tip up so far before you have no strength between the holes. There's a reason that the tractor pullers are having 9mm Billet tips made, and it ain't cause they enjoy spending money. Think reliability.

 

[TARM]

Nate,

If I do any head work at all or a engine rebuild I would like to explore the idea you have mentioned to me in that area. I would likely setup to 400% at that time.



Yes having a tip go bad is all that Nate stated. Not because its super hard to deal with but because of all the diagnoses you are doing trying to figure out the issue before the nozzle completely lets go. The way mine was there was no way it would have shown up in a flow bench when it was first tested so I can not see how it could have been prevented. It happens just like with any other manf part. There is a certain % that are defective. The larger the nozzle I am sure the larger % that end up having stress cracks that blow the nozzles. Doesn't matter who makes them.

I personally think Nate only wants to give people as much info as possible so they can make the most informed decision. I do not think its to scare anyone away or that he thinks 400% are not streetable. He just wants you to have one more fact to plug in to the others when you make your decision.

 

[Dieselboy.]

Nate sees, deals with, builds and runs em everyday. I take his opinion to heart. After quite a few lengthy conversations of me debating to do 400% nozzle. NATES opinion was the deciding factor.
With his knowledge, I trust his opinion.

Yes it can be done, quite good street manners, but most of the ones running 400% nozzles seem to do their own tuning. I think this is the deciding factor as you can only simulate so many scenarios in a live tuning session. And not all of us are fortunate enough to live close to a tuner.

 

[TARM]

When I go to 400% I will be learning to do my own tuning first and then with them big boys. Doubt even if the goal is 700HP I will be seeing anything past 2 ms. Looking at the flow numbers of the really worked over sets they dump fuel as Dave(Golfer) likes to put it: STUPID FAST!!! LOL Gives me a warm fuzzy feeling just thinking about it.

 

[powerstrokenstang]

Come on now 2ms aint enough. I am runnin about 3 commanded.

 

[907DAVE]

2ms is pretty fun on the street. A bit more wouldn't hurt, but not on public roads.

 

[TARM]

2 ms is what 300cc of fuel. Sounds like enough at least for my needs LOL

 

[Big Bore]

2 ms is what 300cc of fuel. Sounds like enough at least for my needs LOL

Yea, thats enough for 700+HP. LOL

 

[TARM]

Also if you go off what can flow in 2ms and you can get it to refill that 2ms even with reasonable SOI advance will get you past 5K technically.



RPM--------------MS/Degree---------°BTDC = MS-------------24°ATDC------Total Window °/MS----Delay 0.7ms=°/%----Total Comd Window:MS

2000 rpm------0.08333 ms/°------10.0°=0.8333ms------1.99992ms------34.0°/2.83322ms------08.4° / 19.81%------------3.53322ms

2500 rpm------0.06667 ms/°------12.5°=0.8334ms------1.60008ms------36.5°/2.43346ms------10.5° / 22.34%------------3.13346ms

3000 rpm------0.05556 ms/°------15.0°=0.8334ms------1.33344ms------39.0°/2.16684ms------12.6° / 24.42%------------2.86684ms

3500 rpm------0.04762 ms/°------17.5°=0.8334ms------1.14288ms------41.5°/1.97623ms------14.7° / 26.16%------------2.67623ms

4000 rpm------0.04167 ms/°------20.0°=0.8334ms------1.00008ms------44.0°/1.83348ms------16.8° / 27.63%------------2.53348ms

4500 rpm------0.03704 ms/°------22.5°=0.8334ms------0.88896ms------46.5°/1.72236ms------18.9° / 28.90%------------2.42236ms

5000 rpm------0.03333 ms/°------25.0°=0.8333ms------0.79992ms------49.0°/1.63317ms------21.0° / 30.00%------------2.33317ms

---------------------------------------------------------------

 

[Hotrodtractor]

Why are you concerned about the refill time in 2ms? Lets just say 2ms of PW is good to 4500 (for arguments sake) - that 2ms has to take place within about 65 crank angle degrees (roughly 70% duty cylce - and only one injector can fire at a time and one fires every 90 crank degrees) - that leaves about 10ms to refill that injector.

 

[TARM]

That is what I thought but honestly I never really looked into the refill times of injectors on the injection times but I see your point. No way it could be an issue at these times.

 

[Buffalo444]

Yes Matt is running a set of John Links nozzles. John never rated them by %. Matt's nozzles are 7x.014", and they flow like a 400%. If Link was still around I would absolutley consider him a good source for nozzles.

FWIW, I don't think that there is a single injector builder out there that can say they haven't had a 400% or even a 200% nozzle crack on a rare occasion. I'm sure TARM, PTSUPERD, and many others can all elaborate on what its like to have a nozzle break. It's frustrating, and time consuming, but until we come up with something different, it's something we are all going to be subjected to if you decide to go that route.

You can only open a 7mm tip up so far before you have no strength between the holes. There's a reason that the tractor pullers are having 9mm Billet tips made, and it ain't cause they enjoy spending money. Think reliability.

Does anyone do the head work and nozzles to make a 7.3 have 9mm nozzles?

 

[STROKIN N STYLE]

You can't go wrong with Swamps 400/400's. A lot of us have been running them for a while with zero issues. Myself, Brian, Scott Morris to name a couple. Brian has gone over 1000hp and Scott ran a 7.68 1/8th the other night in a crew cab dually on mud tires. Scott also daily drives and tows heavy with his truck. He also hooks to the sled every chance he gets, almost weekly

sent from somewhere in the country

 

[powerstrokenstang]

Does anyone do the head work and nozzles to make a 7.3 have 9mm nozzles?

And are there any that fit in the injector body?

 

[Buffalo444]

And are there any that fit in the injector body?

:lookaround: I dunno

 

[Hotrodtractor]

I have a CAT injector at home that is essentially the same body that has a 9mm tip on it. - combine that with a drill bit and your good! LOL

 

[Buffalo444]

I have a CAT injector at home that is essentially the same body that has a 9mm tip on it. - combine that with a drill bit and your good! LOL

Very funny lol

In all seriousness though, would all it take is machine work for an injector like that to fit? Or are those CAT injectors completely different?