Lets talk 5R

[6speedsd]

Ok, my current truck is the first 5R I've owned. My previous powerstrokes have all been 6spds. So I'm not that "learned" on how this thing works. But I'm having an issue. I know technically its a 6 spd, with 4th and 5th being the same gear, one used when cold, the other when hot. Ok, here's the deal. How many forward shifts should I have? Start off from a stop, should I feel 4 shifts or 5? My issue is I have a terrible quick shift. Like this thing will shift 2-5 before I hit 40mph, no matter how hard I'm on the throttle. I get 5 forward shifts, so I have what, 2-5 then OD? Or is 5 actually OD? Truck did this with stock tuning, although not as bad as it does with any custom tune. The bigger the tune, the more exaggerated it is. Like is I run Eric's tow tune, it quick shifts 2-4, then holds 5 and OD shifts. Matt's SRL...oh hell. 2-5 are insanely fast, then OD and lock up are very shortly after. Both guys have tweaked their files for me with little improvement. The tweaks Eric did showed the most change, but it never corrected the issue, which tells me its not tune related. I ran stock programming today, and it shifts quick through 4, then holds 5 and OD like normal. Put it on tow haul, and it'll hold the 2-5 shifts longer no matter the programming, but not as long as it should. You can watch the tach when accelerating, and it almost doesn't change rpms with each shift. That's how fast it goes through the gears. I hope this makes sense, and I apologize for my terminology in explaining it as I'm not that familiar with these autos. Truck has never thrown a trans related code (checked with AE), never had a gear or the TQ slip. I know it's something electrical, but I don't know where to start. Has a new direct drive Solenoid installed for the past week with no change (had slow engagement into reverse). New fluid and filters as well. This is driving me friggen crazy though. Any ideas? Truck is a 2005 2wd dually.

 

[swinky]

My scangauge reads gears to me

1-2
2-3
3-5
5-6

Converter lock will feel like a shift I bet that's confusing you.

 

[Mark Kovalsky]

I know it's something electrical, but I don't know where to start.

The place to start is looking at data of what the computer is seeing. Does VSS match real speed? Does the throttle position match where your foot is planted? Is the computer telling the trans to shift when the trans shifts?

 

[6speedsd]

My scangauge reads gears to me

1-2
2-3
3-5
5-6

Converter lock will feel like a shift I bet that's confusing you.

This is a possibility. I just assumed since the rpms dropped so much it had to be another shift.

 

[6speedsd]

The place to start is looking at data of what the computer is seeing. Does VSS match real speed? Does the throttle position match where your foot is planted? Is the computer telling the trans to shift when the trans shifts?

VSS is about 2 mph higher than real speed.

I'll have to hook AE back up today and fool around with it some more. I don't remember what I can actually monitor with it.

 

[6speedsd]

I've heard everything from bad speed sensors causing shifting issues, to bad solenoids. How much truth is there to any of that? How likely is it that solenoids go bad (other than the direct drive)? Seems like a faulty speed sensor could cause shifting issues because its telling the PCM an incorrect speed. But wouldn't bad sensors trip some sort of code?

 

[6speedsd]

No idea if any of this is relevant, but here is some info from fooling with AE.

Throttle mode shows closed until you get to about 3% pedal position. Then mode says WOT at about 45% pedal position. All of this checked with KOEO.
Pedal position #1 4.04V
Position 2... 1.47v
Position 3... .92v
This is just sitting with KOEO.

Pedal on the floor shows 99.5% pedal position, position 1 is .62v, position 2 is 4.04v, and position 3 is 3.53v.
4x4 low range input is "present", but not requested by driver.

Any of that make sense, or even remotely relevant?

 

[6speedsd]

Ok, finally figured AE out enough to check some things.

It is commanding the gears to shift when they do. Commands 2,3,5, and apparently commands od but AE won't read it. Just goes blank when it shifts to OD

Gear ratio commanded and measured stay the same.

Input shaft speed stays the same as engine rpms.
Intermediate and output shaft speeds stay the same with each other, but run higher than input shaft speed.

Shift solenoid pressure control D...Shows 0psi the entire time.
Solenoids A and E raise and lower with rpms. "a" is always lower than "E".

Here is what threw me. Vehicle speed never got over 1mph. .3 was the highest I read. Drops to 0 at idle. I checked this one a couple weeks ago and it read within 2mph of actual speed. Now it's not reading.


I don't know what the readings are supposed to be. What do you all think? Mark?? Lol

 

[6speedsd]

Wait....is "D" the direct drive solenoid? I changed that one about a week ago. For the life of me I can't remember physically plugging the connector back in. If D is that solenoid, that would explain the zero pressure reading, and would confirm I'm a bonehead.

 

[SEABEE08FX4]

The D is the direct clutch solenoid, if its not plugged in you should have a code for it.

 

[6speedsd]

No code at all. Would the truck still shift somewhat normal if it wasn't connected?

 

[SEABEE08FX4]

I'm not an expert on the subject, but I would think not as well as reverse.

 

[Mark Kovalsky]

If it isn't plugged in the trans won't shift right and it WILL set a code.

As for what that data means, I don't know. None of that makes any sense to me. I suspect the AE is not reading what you think it should. I've never used an AE so I can't help on how to make it work.

 

[6speedsd]

Surely I connected it, but I don't know. I'm dropping the pan tonight just to make sure. I had the 3-5 flair issue as well as slightly slow engagement into reverse. That's why I changed the solenoid, but it made no difference. Still does the same. If its unplugged, that would explain why it made no difference. But as you said, I'm no expert. One way to find out. Sucks that the internal filter isn't reusable. The current one is only a week old.

 

[SEABEE08FX4]

If it made no change and its plugged in chances are the clutches are toast.

 

[Mark Kovalsky]

Sucks that the internal filter isn't reusable. The current one is only a week old.

Why isn't it reusable? This is new information for me. I thought it was good for the life of the transmission. If this were mine I wouldn't change it. Of course if it were mine I wouldn't be dropping the pan because I know the solenoid is plugged in. If it were not plugged in it WOULD set a code and flash the TOW/HAUL light.

 

[6speedsd]

When you pull the filter out, the little plastic gasket comes off and stays in the trans. I've always been told you can't reconnect the two.

So what, just push the filter back in place and the gasket will reseat?

 

[6speedsd]

The place to start is looking at data of what the computer is seeing. Does VSS match real speed? Does the throttle position match where your foot is planted? Is the computer telling the trans to shift when the trans shifts?

VSS runs about a 1-2 mph difference than actual speed.

The computer is commanding it to shift when it does.

Pedal position matches where my foot is. But clarify this...with the pedal position at about 45%, AE states that I'm at WOT. 45-99.5% is WOT. Isn't 45% a little early for it to read WOT? Or is that correct?
(Just trying to rule out a pedal position issue)

 

[Mark Kovalsky]

When you pull the filter out, the little plastic gasket comes off and stays in the trans. I've always been told you can't reconnect the two.

So what, just push the filter back in place and the gasket will reseat?

First, the solenoid is plugged in or your TOW/HAUL light would be flashing and a code would be stored.

I don't know of a little plastic gasket. Maybe you mean the o-ring that will stay in the pump when you pull the filter out? You can't just push the filter back in and hope the o-ring seats because it won't. You have to pull the o-ring out of the bore and reinstall it on the filter.

VSS runs about a 1-2 mph difference than actual speed.

The computer is commanding it to shift when it does.

Pedal position matches where my foot is. But clarify this...with the pedal position at about 45%, AE states that I'm at WOT. 45-99.5% is WOT. Isn't 45% a little early for it to read WOT? Or is that correct?
(Just trying to rule out a pedal position issue)

That seems REALLY early to be reading WOT.

 

[6speedsd]

That seems REALLY early to be reading WOT.

That's what I was thinking. Is it possible that could be causing the quick shifts? I know shifts are based on speed and throttle position. Got me to wondering with it reading wot so early.