rpm issue

lincolnlocker · Aug 26, 2014

powerstrokenstang said:
Yea have also tried 2 other ecms, an idm, engine harness and all main sensors. Injectors are gettin sent out as soon as pullin slows down and allows the time.

holy crap. that pretty much covers it..

ok, I just measured like mr.becker sugested. I took the fan off so I could use a set of calipers to measure. I used the end of the calipers that you would use for depth.. first I took a breaker bar and rotated the crank a full revolution plus a lil bit till I found a nice flat spot on the cam gear to measure from.. then I laid the calipers across the harmonic balancer so that they stayed somewhat level and slid the caliper end against the block then pushed the skinny bepth gauge in to the gear.. it measured 1.113" then rotated the crank the other direction and measured and it was 1.129"... I did that about 6 different times to make sure I was getting consistent numbers and it varied a hundred thousandth or two each time.. so i guess it varies 16 thousandths of an inch or really close to it... now the thing that gets me is whether or not I ak measuring where the end of the cps is sitting or not, I dont know how the gear is made.... either its flat or it is dished cuz when I measure the cps's, the black measures 1.155 and the grey measures 1.133 from the end to the stops where it hits the block.. so either I didnt measure the correct spot or these cps's are extremely strong cuz that means they are acting as a spacer and the cam is always rubbing on them.. or It is way sloppier when up to temp from thin oil and the cam is wlaking or the gear is walking even though I was told it was welded when rebuilt a couple of different times...

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TyCorr · Aug 26, 2014

That doesn't make sense. The air gap is like .025 iirc.

pontiacross · Aug 26, 2014

I agree something dosent add up. .015 doesn't sound like to much end play but I don't remember the spec and it may be moving more than that under a load. I have never had a sensor that would hit the cam gear with out the engine running how many shims did you have to put in there to keep them from rubbing? I usually set the gap to .020

lincolnlocker · Aug 26, 2014

TyCorr said:
That doesn't make sense. The air gap is like .025 iirc.

your telling me!! that is just wacky!!

pontiacross said:
I agree something dosent add up. .015 doesn't sound like to much end play but I don't remember the spec and it may be moving more than that under a load. I have never had a sensor that would hit the cam gear with out the engine running how many shims did you have to put in there to keep them from rubbing? I usually set the gap to .020

yeah, this thing keeps getting wierder and weirder... I wrote down my measurements from the block to the gear each time I did it and like mentioned, I prolly didn't get spot on even every time.. but I can see that being under load would make it worse..

the sensor has to have been rubbing this entire time that it was only running 3500rpm.. I put enough shims in to clear the 1.113" measurement at 1.10" from the tip of the black cps to the spot where it hits the block and drove it around. while still trying not to boost the chit out of the fresh headgaskets I put it in my dd tune(first time in 4 years its been outa the hot tune) to keep boost mild and a lil more controlled and put it in second gear to slowly build the rpms.. it creaped past 3500rpm and when it hit 3800 it stumbled and the cel popped on. BAM cps intermittent code.. cleared the code and did it again, just barely hit 4k rpm this time and BAM cel with cps intermittent again.. so either the cam/gear is moving to close again and the .003" of an inch isnt enough or it is walking away from it and creating more of a gap... so tomorrow I am gonna add another shim, which I think I am at .040 now, and see if it gets better or worse.. the shims I have aren't perfact. I think I measured the thicker ones at 11 thousandths of an inch and the thinner ones at 3 thousandths of an inch. but I can't remember right now exactly what they where...

so I think I have it going in a better direction now.. but still unsure....

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lincolnlocker · Aug 27, 2014

shims are .010 and .003 inches thick. I am at 1.110" with shims now. so in order to get a bigger gap I would have to add pretty much the entire stack of shims I have. lol

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lincolnlocker · Aug 27, 2014

so, if everything stays the same and the gear/cam isn't walking(lol) then I have enough shims to make a .015 gap.. im going for a drive now.

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TyCorr · Aug 27, 2014

Good luck Honky!

Hotrodtractor · Aug 27, 2014

lincolnlocker · Aug 27, 2014

Hotrodtractor said:

so that confirms I have to much endplay? by about twice the amount allowed...

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pontiacross · Aug 27, 2014

lincolnlocker said:
so that confirms I have to much endplay? by about twice the amount allowed...

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At least. Sorry to say but it may move more if you could pry on. How was the test drive

lincolnlocker · Aug 27, 2014

I spaced it to far. I only hit 3k rpm when it popled a cps code.. so I sat down with my numbers and did some fine, very fine measurikg with the calipers and I have tthe shims set, as long as its not moving more then what I measured in and out before, to go from .003 at the closest to .023 at the farthest and drove it some more and I can get 4000 to 4200 rpm now before it pops a cps code and runs like dog chit. hopefully it stays that way till I can tare it down this winter...

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OBS-Addiction97 · Aug 27, 2014

So what do you think is causing the excessive end play?

lincolnlocker · Aug 27, 2014

OBS-Addiction97 said:
So what do you think is causing the excessive end play?

good question.. either the cam gear isn't welded like it was said to be or the cam is wlaking in and out.

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Chvyrkr · Aug 27, 2014

lincolnlocker said:
good question.. either the cam gear isn't welded like it was said to be or the cam is wlaking in and out.

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Unless item 2 is failing... It's gear walk.

I'd be careful how much and how hard I drove it until I got that gear reseated and welded. You can cause a whole lot of stress via cylinder pressure if timing is all over the place.

Chvyrkr · Aug 27, 2014

And it's entirely possible that the thrust plate (item 2) is worn, allowing end play. Can't say I've ever heard of anyone finding one worn, though I'm sure it's happened.

lincolnlocker · Aug 27, 2014

Chvyrkr said:
Unless item 2 is failing... It's gear walk.

I'd be careful how much and how hard I drove it until I got that gear reseated and welded. You can cause a whole lot of stress via cylinder pressure if timing is all over the place.

im guessing thats got a lot to do with me blowing both headgaskets a week ago...

Chvyrkr said:
And it's entirely possible that the thrust plate (item 2) is worn, allowing end play. Can't say I've ever heard of anyone finding one worn, though I'm sure it's happened.

my luck is that all 3 are happening at once... lol

whish I could monitor cylinder pressures somehow just to see how bad it can get and to show proof for others just how bad it can get..

live life full throttle

Chvyrkr · Aug 28, 2014

lincolnlocker said:
im guessing thats got a lot to do with me blowing both headgaskets a week ago...

my luck is that all 3 are happening at once... lol

whish I could monitor cylinder pressures somehow just to see how bad it can get and to show proof for others just how bad it can get..

live life full throttle

Probably.

And in my mind the proof is out there in 5000 blocks with windows.