Stealth SRP1 In Hand!
- Thread starter Beanhead
- Start date
Charles
Well-known member
- Joined
- May 18, 2011
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We were all idiots back in the day with the 20* pump because there was just no need for such a thing. Now there are how many "medium" oil options?
lol.
And the conception behind the changes to the "modded" pump aren't shocking in the least. No recognition that in it's perfectly stock form it was incapable of supplying adequate volume, but in the quest to increase pressure on a pump with insufficient outflow the emergency relief spring and IPR spill port orifices were altered.
So you get a pump without even a single shred of increased capacity, but that is now harder to control and likely to fail catastrophically everywhere except WOT, with the IPR spill port and the factory emergency relief dicked with.
Genius, lol.
Doesn't matter when that stopped being done. To have ever done it in the first place says it all.
lol.
And the conception behind the changes to the "modded" pump aren't shocking in the least. No recognition that in it's perfectly stock form it was incapable of supplying adequate volume, but in the quest to increase pressure on a pump with insufficient outflow the emergency relief spring and IPR spill port orifices were altered.
So you get a pump without even a single shred of increased capacity, but that is now harder to control and likely to fail catastrophically everywhere except WOT, with the IPR spill port and the factory emergency relief dicked with.
Genius, lol.
Doesn't matter when that stopped being done. To have ever done it in the first place says it all.
powerSmokin
New member
Yea doesn't help much when I say that then Joey tells me 3 ppl actually know lol
Big Bore
New member
One of them, probably the first to know, is also without a doubt the same person you were arguing with earlier. He also just happens to be the person who designed then sold the Terminator duals to Joey.
LOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOL
powerSmokin
New member
Very interesting
Powerstroked162
On Da Juice
moose99psd
New member
i thought that everyone knew that? LOL
Ok, I figured I would come in and explain the reasoning behind the mods so nicely published.
The first picture is not a bushing, but a restrictor. Your buddy Gary should know of this modification, becasue I told him about it back in 2004. On my personal truck, pressure was increased by a couple hundred PSI at WOT. You ask why? Simple, restricting that 92thou hole down to a 32thou orfice increases flow. That plastic check ball does not create a perfect seal when the pump builds pressure, thus losing valuable volume that can be better used towards the oil rails. I don't expect the average "Joe" to know this, because not everyone has access to a high pressure oil pump flow bench, as I do! FYI, I will not take full credit of this mod. I was told of this mod by someone that was in the 7.3 Performance at the very beginning. Old timers might remember the name "PsychoStroker" aka Bryan Kinney?
The second picture: Those "pings'" were to help keep the front pump seal in. There was also an increase in volume as well, with the front seal flipped over, because again, on the flow bench we seen an increase in volume(the front seal weeps a ton of oil when the oil is up to operating tempature). But doing this mod, would sometimes cause the internal piston slipper C ring to jump out. When that happens, your dead on the side of the raod and the pump internals are usually destroyed in the process. I would estimate 5 out of 100 failures, which I repaired/replaced at NO charge.
And picture three: It's just an emergency blow-off valve shim. I now use a Stainless steel shim. By shimming the blow-off valve, more ICP can be achieved, if necessary(around 4000psi). Every pump that leaves my shop, has a shim(Singles and Duals).
There it is.
On Edit: I NEVER said that the internals were modified. They are completely stock. So, if you have a failure or debris issues, it's STOCK.
Now the T500 and the T1000 are NOT STOCK internally.
Thank you,
Joey@TE
Posting this response from a different forum...
OBSWIZ
Member
So I would ask...You did tell Gary....care to tell the others what Gary told you about the restrictor mod?
What mods are done to the T500 and T1000..
IMO having the info for all consumers to make a informed choice about the HPOP's available is best.
What mods are done to the T500 and T1000..
IMO having the info for all consumers to make a informed choice about the HPOP's available is best.
strokin'_tatsch
Member
Yeah, just like it's best for everyone to know everything their tuner is adjusting and every mod done to their injectors... :doh::doh:
OBSWIZ
Member
So you don't think when your buying a HPOP and trying to see whats best for your app that its better to know what the differences are...you would rather go on the internet and listen to anecdotal evidence of performance?
Would you rather have a back to back dyno test data log..of all the pumps available on the same truck?
Would you rather have a back to back dyno test data log..of all the pumps available on the same truck?
juniort444e
New member
Simple, restricting that 92thou hole down to a 32thou orfice increases flow
How does that increase flow, i think i would increase pressure, but restrict flow. that does not make any sense.
How does that increase flow, i think i would increase pressure, but restrict flow. that does not make any sense.
Big Bore
New member
From Joey's comments and looking back at the pics of where the bushing is located, what I've been able to deduce is the bushing is preventing the pressure from bleeding off to an unwanted area and diverting that to the injectors.
strokin'_tatsch
Member
So you think when your looking at having someone tune your truck or build you injectors that your magically entitled to know all the ins and outs of what they are doing and why? I wouldn't ask any of the injector builders to tell me every mod that they do to their injectors just like I wouldn't ask any of the HPOP builders to reveal every mod they do. Sure, it helps to decide what's what on the market, but then again they have all worked pretty hard to get where they are, why should they just hand out that info for anybody to use?
Datalogs, dyno tests, reliability, etc would be a better way of going about it. Personally, I don't need to see any of that to know what setup I'm going with next, but someone else may find it useful.
OBSWIZ
Member
When you buy a Inj you get flow data..least Full Force gives it to their customers..so you KNOW what the injector does.
With the data Stealth provides..so you have proof of performance.
Gary desided to be open to show whats been done to prove the value of the product.
Volume is only changed by displacement..
Charles answered this...
With the data Stealth provides..so you have proof of performance.
Gary desided to be open to show whats been done to prove the value of the product.
Volume is only changed by displacement..
Charles answered this...
Big Bore
New member
The flip side of the coin is, trying to make an informed decision on whether or not to use a certain product is very difficult. That is in no way suggesting manufacturers divulge proprietary information. However it would be very helpful to the consumer to see comprehensive flow charts, and to see data logging of a modified or aftermarket HPOP showing ICP, DC and PW at varying RPM's and on/off throttle to see whats happening to the ICP going from WOT to no throttle. Thats the kind of technical data we need, not as stated before "anecdotal" evidence which has no real technical value, since endorsing a pump using Joe Blow who may have a had a worn out pump to start with and can suddenly reach orbit with ICP is not conclusive period since he may have experienced the same results with a new 17*.
I also don't think dyno results would be useful in regards to HPOP's.
I also don't think dyno results would be useful in regards to HPOP's.
jkidd_39
Member
No offense but your stance seems hypocritical.
Do you not modify your truck? If so you most likely have the personality to dig deeper as to why something works the way it does.
Can someone go modify an hpop like stealth or Joey does?? Sure just get out your check book and have at it.
This sort of info is great for the community. If everyone can look inside an hpop and comprehend how it works and why it's modified then we are all better off.
Knowledge is what we are chasing. I bet if you line up a termy hpop and a stealth hpop there are some similaritys and some differences. Not because one is superior but because two different people built them.
There are a 100 ways to build something. 50 wrong ways, 25 right ways and 25 wats that no one has thought of yet.
strokin'_tatsch
Member
I mod every vehicle I own unfortunately and I do enjoy learning how modding this and that helps one particular part of the system to work better, but I wouldn't ask any of the builders to lay everything out there to be seen. With that said, it wouldn't hurt to let everyone know what it is about the pump that makes it worth buying, but without revealing all their "secrets".
How much MORE volume does it flow than a NEW stock 17*? Flow data can show that. Does it use larger pistons? Different swash plate? Those things are good to know, but I don't think it's neccessary to show every other mod that is done. Flow data and a couple major mod points that most of us already know about would be sufficient IMO.
I agree that knowing how all the systems work helps to better understand how to build an all around better working system. The only way for some to learn these things is through these forums or to go get some spare parts and tear them apart and learn how they work together. I agree that revealing SOME info on how the pumps are modded will help people decide which pump fits their goal, but if there are any other uncommon mods that these companies perform that possibly makes their pump better than someone elses, I don't think they should reveal those "secrets".
Flow data would show how much volume each pump flows and datalogs should show how fast the pump can build commanded pressure. I think this info combined with the major mod points that most of know of(swash plate angle and stock or larger pistons) should be enough info for most people to make a decision on a pump.
FYI joey is not a member over here, so he will never respond....
T-500 picks up usually 4-800 psi on a stock pump....(depends on condition of pump) and quite a few internal modifications....and he can build new units as well....see diesel world article thats my truck and actual data...
T-1000 has been shown to pick up quite a bit more... MUCH more internally done.....usually picks up 1000psi
FWIW
Stock pump flows aprox 7.2-7.4 cc's (17*)... 6.8 cc's (15*) per rev
T500 picks up the most gains with 15* obv.... t-500 flows aprox 7.6+ cc per rev....aprox 4-6%
T-1000 above 8+cc's give or take....
Duals double above numbers....
that is all just basic numbers nothing hard... and I know I know not going to get ACTUAL double, and a 17* does not ACTUALLY flow that... it would all be perfect ideal situations....
T-500 picks up usually 4-800 psi on a stock pump....(depends on condition of pump) and quite a few internal modifications....and he can build new units as well....see diesel world article thats my truck and actual data...
T-1000 has been shown to pick up quite a bit more... MUCH more internally done.....usually picks up 1000psi
FWIW
Stock pump flows aprox 7.2-7.4 cc's (17*)... 6.8 cc's (15*) per rev
T500 picks up the most gains with 15* obv.... t-500 flows aprox 7.6+ cc per rev....aprox 4-6%
T-1000 above 8+cc's give or take....
Duals double above numbers....
that is all just basic numbers nothing hard... and I know I know not going to get ACTUAL double, and a 17* does not ACTUALLY flow that... it would all be perfect ideal situations....
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