Supercharged 7.3

[sootie]

Sorry keeping it as is. Like I said the few diesels that have ran a turbo into a blower to compound it found out that it creates a lot of heat. There is a guy who built a turbo feeding blower 4bt and now he is rebuilding the setup with the whipple feeding the turbo. On the gas engine cars the twin charger setups are at lower pressures than seen on a diesel that's why they can get away with it. Try to cram 30-40 psi down a blower and find out how hot it gets and how long the bearings and seals last. It just does not work well and is not effecient. If it was the multiple super turbo diesels would be doing it that way. In the end you will have high eggs, poor thermal effeciency, and possible blower damage. I paid good money for the blower on the truck I rather it last a long life.

What are high eggs? maybe this is the secret we all are missing...

 

[superpsd]

I ran last summer without the blower. I put it back on because drivaility with it was better. The stock turbo is slow to spool with the blower I found it to greatly improve response time. Getting thru traffic or cruising along at 1200 rpm and stabbing it produced better action response with the blower intact. Also fuel economy didn't change much. Never really calculate as I could care less but highway fuel economy was about the same and I didn't see a drop. With a stock turbo and tune you could get a bit of smoke until the turbo was online. Do nothing but put a blower on in same conditions smoke would be reduced. The reason for reduced smoke is the fuel is more effeciently burning inside the CC instead of being pushed out the exhaust. This led to a snappier truck down low. I felt no difference in power up top with or without blower. There is no load on the blower once the turbo is rolling. This uses very little power to turn and unloaded blower. I am also not done yet. Stock turbo will be gone soon.

 

[psduser1]

Keep pouring fuel and air in at 1200 rpms...

 

[superpsd]

Lol. It's funny how I can pull up graphs from companies like Eaton themselves who are testing super turbo combos and more yet I am wrong for doing it the way I am. Just like I was wrong for building my own injectors and so on. I did research the super turbo combos before I ever even bought a blower. It was not just a thought "I have an idea". No I saw what other enthusiasts were doing with these combos and talked with them and combed the interwebs for more information. A few did compound a turbo blower setup he found elevated IATs and it will rob more power because there is a load when a blower is trying to push already compressed air. That is why they use a bypass on the Silver Series blower on Detroit 2 strokes. That's why the turbocharged versions of the 2 strokes have a blower that is geared to turn slower. Gale Banks is not liked much here and I don't care what he is doing. The only banks product I have is a banks muffler and that is because it's the quitest muffler on the market and it was only 100$. But he does win races and he is doing it smokeless so like him or not he seems to know a little bit about the subject as they build super turbo combos and their duramax dragster only has a twin screw lyshom charger.

This is from one of the reports I listed about. This is the super turbo combo Eaton tested to find better turbo response, and gains in fuel effeciency. The Eaton website talks about testing blowers on diesel cars in Europe in cooperation with AIG Germany. Theres going to be more blowers on diesels in the future.
http://www.eaton.com/Eaton/ProductsServices/Vehicle/Superchargers/diesel-supercharger/index.htm
The T-800 setup...

 

[dsberman94]

Difference I can see between a Europe diesel and a 7.3. Typically the euro diesel is a 2 cylinder or something else small like that and probably wouldn't be able to create enough BP to efficiently spool a stock 7.3 turbo. In that case I'm sure it would be much more efficient and easier to make boost in a bigger charger using a belt driven blower, whether it be a roots or centrifugal.

 

[superpsd]

Actually I messed up its not "AIG" it's "IAV" of you click on the Eaton link for the diesel super charger and click on applications it says.

Eaton has tested the new technology is a couple of applications.

Passenger cars (in cooperation with IAV Germany)
Commercial vehicle (class 8 HD truck)

I am sure there's a lot more testing behind the scenes that the public will never know about.

 

[psduser1]

Whether you are right or wrong, instaboost at 1200 rpms could lead to bent rods.

Oems design parameters and intentions rarely match what the guys in the aftermarket are trying to do. May be part of the disconnect here.
I'd say most of these guys have been there, done that, and realized that off idle isn't really that important, especially if you want the bottom end to live happily for hundreds of thousands of mile.

Why do you think ford made them such a turd to start with?

 

[97stoker350]

To meet emmisions???

It surely wasn't because the bottom end couldn't hold another 100hp...

 

[Charles]

My red truck would produce regulated boost of 70psi at or below 1700rpm, because my induction system was not tied to the crankshaft, and was free to build boost as the engine needed it. Thankfully it also produced nearly zero boost at that same rpm if just cruising and at no time did it make you want to drive into a ditch to stop the infernal racket. In fact, a Gt47 is like music to the ears, and a turbo automatically knows when to STFU because you're just cruising.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if my gray truck made more boost at 1200rpm just like it sits with the biggest housing made for a 38r!

 

[97stoker350]

Charles can you PM me some info on the setup ur talking about?

 

[superpsd]

The blower is noticeable but not really all that obnoxious. If I have the radio on even turned down very low you can't hear the blower. When your pulling a heavy hill like a pass it goes quite as the bypass is opened and all you can hear is the turbo whistlin. Cruising down the highway with the radio off there is a subtle low whine just to let you know it's there. If I do drive it faster it will likely increase sound a little bit. The TVS (twin vortices series) blowers were aimed at increasing effeciency and decreasing noise. The TVS has half the noise as my M122 had. The M122 was tolerable but much more pronounced. The extreme sound of a whipple is why I chose Eaton. If funds were unlimited and I wanted a bigger blower there is a 4.5L that will bolt right on to my mounting plate but would likely not clear the hood. A 4.5 whipple would be over kill they also have a4.0L and 3.3L bolt on.

Blower technology use to be less than 50% thermal effecient. The TVS that I am using has a maximum effeciency of 72% on the map with a broad range of 70%

I am ready for that new turbo but it sounds like it is a couple of more weeks in that thread. Nice to actually see a picture of the new ball bearing snail. It's smokless around town but hammer down and it's a different story.

 

[psduser1]

To meet emmisions???

It surely wasn't because the bottom end couldn't hold another 100hp...

Not for emissions.
And yes, they will surely hold another 100 hp.

 

[Charles]

Charles can you PM me some info on the setup ur talking about?

GT47-88 with a 1.39 A/R housing and GTP38R with 1.15 A/R housing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jIrj6R6bSmg

Listen to the angels sing, lol.

Truck didn't make sh*t for power on that dyno, although nothing else did either. That program made 630 to 650rwhp on two different Dynojets. You want boost.... just tell it how much and you got it. That setup was perfectly happy to produce triple digits efficiently.

 

[97stoker350]

With 250s?

 

[Charles]

With 250s?

Didn't matter. At 90psi it was only running the gates at like 20 and 30%.

Each turbo only had to make 24.5psi when you had 90lbs on the manifold. Just about any injector will do that.

If each turbo made 41.5psi you would have 200psi on the manifold!

That's how easy boost is when you compound stages.

If I can remember I'm going to see what kind of boost my gray truck makes at 1200rpm with the 38R and 1.15 housing. I bet it's decent. I know it will surge the piss out of it between 1500 and 1750rpm and that's probably 20 to 25psi if I had to guess.

I just don't grasp the idea of purposefully trying to make boost when you don't need it, like when you're just tooling down the road and then turning a forced induction device off when you need it the most.... full power....

I'm lost as to all the assbackwardness.

 

[Charles]

With the 38R and 1.15 housing on my gray truck I had boost as follows:

1200rpm = 3.5 to 4 psi.

1500rpm = 8 to 9 psi

1750rpm = 18 to 19 psi

Anything above that is pretty much 30psi.

Those values are sitting at the mentioned rpm and building boost, not making boost higher and then pulling back down, which I don't think would be a good comparison here, although the numbers would be higher.

If the superconfuser is making 7psi at 12 hundo, then it's got my 38R beat. I'd like to see what a 1.0 housing would do, but then again, I don't want more power below 2000rpm, so... if it did make more boost I'd probably just have to pull more fuel.

 

[ja_cain]

With the 38R and 1.15 housing on my gray truck I had boost as follows:

1200rpm = 3.5 to 4 psi.

1500rpm = 8 to 9 psi

1750rpm = 18 to 19 psi

Anything above that is pretty much 30psi.

Those values are sitting at the mentioned rpm and building boost, not making boost higher and then pulling back down, which I don't think would be a good comparison here, although the numbers would be higher.

If the superconfuser is making 7psi at 12 hundo, then it's got my 38R beat. I'd like to see what a 1.0 housing would do, but then again, I don't want more power below 2000rpm, so... if it did make more boost I'd probably just have to pull more fuel.

Your talking steady state at those rpm's? That's significantly higher than mine runs at those rpm's (stock truck) even considering your running the larger exhaust housing.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

 

[superpsd]

I got stuck in a traffic jam on the highway stop and go low speed traffic in a rain equal earlier. I lugged it along at one point in 3rd at 1000 rpms. I looked down at my manifold gauge and it was 7 psi. No load empty bed.

Some of the whippled Cummins setups I have seen are pullied to created 8-10 psi @ idle.

 

[superpsd]

One issue I am having is cold start up. It may be a worn or worn poppets. Making some tuning adjustments seems to help the problem but not solve it yet. Time will tell. I may need to get AE or download CarGauge App to run a buzz and CCT test. It barely hazes at idle when cold.
Runs rough cold. Does not sound like it is missing more like an imbalance and sends vibrations thru the truck. No CEL. Runs rough until 2000 rpms then clears up. Seems to clear up around 80-100 EOT but the other night it ran rough way up to 120+ EOT and I was trying to baby it along until it cleared up. Last night it was running rough and EOT was still cold. I had to get it up to speed. Being easy on the throttle it ran like crap so I said F it and laid down the pedal a bit. As soon as it was around 2K and climbing fast it was like a switch and went completely smooth and balanced. Let off and then engine runs remarkably smooth. Same thing this morning EOT cold rough. Punch it and switch is thrown to running great mode and EOT is still cold. Once you force it to run great even shutdown and restarting warm it will run powerful and smooth. Lowering MFD near idle a bit did help. I have more adjustments to try but that's where I am at. I have 5 more tunes to load before I take off for home tonight.

 

[Charles]

One issue I am having is cold start up. It may be a worn or worn poppets. Making some tuning adjustments seems to help the problem but not solve it yet. Time will tell. I may need to get AE or download CarGauge App to run a buzz and CCT test. It barely hazes at idle when cold.
Runs rough cold. Does not sound like it is missing more like an imbalance and sends vibrations thru the truck. No CEL. Runs rough until 2000 rpms then clears up. Seems to clear up around 80-100 EOT but the other night it ran rough way up to 120+ EOT and I was trying to baby it along until it cleared up. Last night it was running rough and EOT was still cold. I had to get it up to speed. Being easy on the throttle it ran like crap so I said F it and laid down the pedal a bit. As soon as it was around 2K and climbing fast it was like a switch and went completely smooth and balanced. Let off and then engine runs remarkably smooth. Same thing this morning EOT cold rough. Punch it and switch is thrown to running great mode and EOT is still cold. Once you force it to run great even shutdown and restarting warm it will run powerful and smooth. Lowering MFD near idle a bit did help. I have more adjustments to try but that's where I am at. I have 5 more tunes to load before I take off for home tonight.

Sounds just like the crap ass worn out injectors I just changed out in my gray truck. Almost every morning the truck would have a dead miss for a mile or so down the road then snap to attention like you threw a switch.

Wouldn't crank when it was below about 20 degrees either, so be aware that might ground you on colder days. Had to be plugged in, then it would fire off.

To be completely honest, having a nice, balanced set of injectors just doesn't happen without a bench. I was doing what you're doing now, many years ago, and success and quality of life went through the roof when the bench came onto the scene.

Sending them out to be flowed by someone else is not a solution either. Them telling you that yep.... their F'ed... doesn't help if you can't work them over right then and toss them right back on until they're dialed.

Find someone with a bench close enough that you can work with them on using the bench and tearing them down on the spot or pay someone with a bench to balance them for you.

Everything thing else will lead to varying degrees of F'ed up balance and ragged running from the engine.

Or.... make your own bench.

One way or another, you'll have to flow injector sets that you want to be reliable and balanced.