mclarengts
New member
Im about to do some towing in the near future. My question is what should my tranny temps look like? whats normal, and whats high trans temps when towing?
Transmission Temp??
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mclarengts
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Looking at about 4-5k lbs..
Mark Kovalsky
Active member
You're completely fine up to 220°F. You can go as high as 250°F for no more than 1/2 hour at a time.
dietoremain
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I have no doubt in your knowledge, but regardless fluid starts breaking down at those temps and I personally wouldn't drive with those temps.
My truck has a trucool in line with the stock cooler and never sees over 170* I am very happy with that. Normal while towing in mild temps(stock cooler) should be around 170-180 range I'd say.
Justin@DP-Tuner
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Tranny fluid will actually hold its consistency at higher heat for quite some time. I would say at about 215*F you should start to take caution. Even at that heat you would be okay for quite a while. If I'm not mistaken break down of trans fluid is cumulative and you would probably get 25,000 miles out of your trans fluid at that heat. There are charts online that you can look up as far as the break down of fluid vs. mileage goes.
CGMKCM
New member
70* to 100* above the ambient temperature is what I was told was normal.
dmd
Member
80 to 100° above ambient temperature is what I saw. That always caused problems when towing in Texas summer heat. Now with my BTS transmission and the 6 L cooler I rarely see over 150° no matter the ambient temperature.
dietoremain
New member
Yup either way cooler temps=better!!
Mark Kovalsky
Active member
Yes, it did in the 60's. Fluid has been greatly improved since then. It doesn't start breaking down until it's over 300°F.
Is that a number that you just pulled out of the air? Why 215 instead of 220? The 220 is based on fluid and transmission material specifications and a lot of testing. What is your 215 based on?
I have never found one of those charts that even has a resemblance to reality.
Justin@DP-Tuner
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I did not say stop driving when you hit 215*, I said take caution. If you are hitting 215* you are probably having transmission issues as it is.
How do you figure fluid does not breakdown until 300*? Do you have proof of this? I'm willing to bet that every single person on this site would $hit their pants if they saw 300* on that gauge. Even if fluid didn't break down until then, I am willing to bet with how thin it is your trans would not be happy about it at all, and it wouldn't be lubricating to its full potential.
I realize you have a lot more experience with transmissions than probably anyone on this sight, but I just want to see proof of your breakdown analysis.
I don't doubt your knowledge, I'm just having trouble believing the temperature part.
If I remember correctly mark is/was a ford tranny engineer or something along those lines. Somebody please correct me if I am wrong. However I agree I would chit myself if I saw 300* trans temps. I back out when I start seeing 210 because even after you back out the temps rise a bit then start falling. I have only seen 210+ grossing 22k+ in 75* plus ambient temps in my 05. Knowing how to drive a load responsibly does a wonder on trans temps.
4cstr
New member
I trust Mark without a doubt here. I'm proof that at that temps...using a quality fluid...there isn't an issue. I run Mobil synth in my tranny. One summer while towing in the Black Hills...I took a wrong turn and got stuck in a high rpm, low speed situation (very steep grade with a lot of switch backs). No place to pull off. By the time I got to the crest of the hill (mountain) my tranny temps were pushing 230*...and yes I was crapping my pants. My total time above 220* was probably 20 to 30 minutes. I had just put the tranny in the truck about 4 months prior. I called the builder of the tranny (also somebody involved in Ford transmissions) and he told me not to sweat it. I pulled a sample and sent it to Blackstone...and they said it was fine. I ran that fluid for another 50k miles before changing it out. No issues what so ever with the tranny to date.
I have the stock tranny cooler (early 99's didn't have the cooler in the radiator) along with a tru-cool max out in front. I do have the large 6L cooler in the shed waiting to go in...but haven't found the time yet.
Anyway...everybody is entitled to their opinion...no issues with that. But I know that Mark has the facts to back up his opinion.
Mark Kovalsky
Active member
Probably not. 215°F is within the normal operating temperature of all Ford automatic transmissions. Reaching that temperature does not mean there is any problem. It means the trans is working hard, and probably is in a high ambient temperature.
I figure this from the ATF specifications that I had access to when I was a Ford automatic transmission engineer. I no longer have them as I no longer am an employee.
I'm sure you're right about this. That doesn't mean that any of them would be damaging their transmissions.
Once again I go back to the fluid specs. The fluid has to maintain a minimum lubricity even at 300°F.
I can't show you anything. It all belongs to Ford and I left it all there when I left.
You can believe what I say without proof, or not believe it. It doesn't change what I know to be the facts.
Yes I was, from 1988-2007.
Arisley
Moderator
If Mark told me that piss was a good thing to run in the tranny, I would buy a keg of beer, invite a bunch of friends over and put a funnel in my trans fill tube.
Heck Ive seen 290°! Get stuck with a heavy load on a hill in soft ground. Half an hour of back n forth in 4wd with approximately 20k lbs of trailer. I changed mine so often I didnt care.
Knowing that, and the trans didnt boil over, makes me wonder what temps I was seeing in my 94 250 when I boiled it over plowing? Had to be 400°...
Just for contributions sake, I took my truck out last night and the night before. Ive got a 2k cc/sb psd with 4r and 4wd. Truck has php tunes,38r, 6" lift ,37s,and clean 4" exhaust(no ebp bs). In a stock tune from cold start driving three miles the trans hit 138°. I drove two more miles and there was no change. Test two I started the truck cold and drove the same path. However, once engine temps reached warm I put the truck into 140 hp tune. The egts were approximately 100° higher or around 700 °. Ths trans was apparently taking more abuse as it was 165°. Ambient air temp was 40°
I didnt have anything to tow at the house so I couldnt do a test that way. If anybody would like ive got a 4k lb car on a 2k lb trailer I could do another run. I checked all my #'s with a redundant system. Analog gauges and a cts. Any values that were different were less than 5%. I attribute that to the cts getting real-time data whereas the gauges are having to heat a sensor and have slower speed signal chain.
Knowing that, and the trans didnt boil over, makes me wonder what temps I was seeing in my 94 250 when I boiled it over plowing? Had to be 400°...
Just for contributions sake, I took my truck out last night and the night before. Ive got a 2k cc/sb psd with 4r and 4wd. Truck has php tunes,38r, 6" lift ,37s,and clean 4" exhaust(no ebp bs). In a stock tune from cold start driving three miles the trans hit 138°. I drove two more miles and there was no change. Test two I started the truck cold and drove the same path. However, once engine temps reached warm I put the truck into 140 hp tune. The egts were approximately 100° higher or around 700 °. Ths trans was apparently taking more abuse as it was 165°. Ambient air temp was 40°
I didnt have anything to tow at the house so I couldnt do a test that way. If anybody would like ive got a 4k lb car on a 2k lb trailer I could do another run. I checked all my #'s with a redundant system. Analog gauges and a cts. Any values that were different were less than 5%. I attribute that to the cts getting real-time data whereas the gauges are having to heat a sensor and have slower speed signal chain.
Justin@DP-Tuner
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Alright. The reason I asked about the temperature thing was because I could not find any break down information on any of the Mercon manufacturers websites. Apparently that stuff is hard information to get that they do not want to let go.
Go out and heat some atf slowly in a erlenmeyer flask. Record the temp that it starts to burn. Then you'll know what temp YOU are good up to.
I see trans fluid fail commonly if its not changed regularly. Idk, I had good luck with mine nust by keeping the fluid changed.
I see trans fluid fail commonly if its not changed regularly. Idk, I had good luck with mine nust by keeping the fluid changed.
Mark Kovalsky
Active member
When I was at Ford we supplied built 4R100 transmissions to an off road race team. They won the Baja 1000 and several other races running our transmissions.
During one race they had a cooler fan failure (the trans coolers were mounted in the bed behind the cab) and the trans gauge was pegged at 320°F for a few hundred race miles. We know that the trans actually got above 450°F because the solder melted out of the solenoids! The trans ran Mobil 1 ATF, which did get dark, but did not burn. The trans showed some signs of overheating, but it still worked fine and they finished the race.
During one race they had a cooler fan failure (the trans coolers were mounted in the bed behind the cab) and the trans gauge was pegged at 320°F for a few hundred race miles. We know that the trans actually got above 450°F because the solder melted out of the solenoids! The trans ran Mobil 1 ATF, which did get dark, but did not burn. The trans showed some signs of overheating, but it still worked fine and they finished the race.
Tom S
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