Tuning 101 - Thread Merged with Injector Posts

ja_cain · Dec 10, 2015

Charles, any chance you could post up a video/sound clip of your truck idling cold and then at operating temp?

ja_cain · Dec 10, 2015

JD3020 said:
Hell i wish it was only a year ago, just opened up Minotaur and i haven't even modded a tune since August 2014.

But i don't even know how i started, had no plans to start tuning when i did. Just happened to have bought a set of used 250/200%'s hybrids at one point, and was running Matts tunes for my old 175/100% a-codes. Saw a decent deal for a used Minotaur "set-up" so i bought it instead of trying to get good tunes for a mostly stock OBS rocking 250/200%'s. Just spent a LOT of time reading a billion threads on here, PSN, and the older sites. I absolutely hated the base tunes PHP sent me, so i started with stock file and kept tweaking it. I have a scangauge but no way to datalog, so i'd just drive the truck while keeping a close eye on my gauges and go from there. Eventually got it to the point where i had one tune that would make some power while running super clean and maintain 3100psi, and the truck has lived in that tune ever since. Spent all of last year as my work truck towing equipment and **** everywhere, but still had the ability to throw me back into the seat even though it weighs 8klbs. As much as i love towing with my F-450, i miss the power my 200%'s had with a load. There were several times when i'd pass cars on the on-ramp with an excavator or skid steer in tow. LOL

I don't drive it anymore though, think it has a hurt cylinder(not surprised as i run it hard), and the last time i was under the hood i noticed 3 of the 4 up-pipe bolts were snapped off at the collector. Engine bay is pure black from the soot, and i actually get smoke rolling up around the hood when i get on the throttle. Still runs pretty damn good though, aside from not building any boost.

Thanks for the info! When you say "base tunes", do you mean base tunes for 250/200's or base single shot tunes? I'm sorry if my questions are a little elementary in nature, but I am trying to understand what everyone is starting with when trying to come up with a working tune for a hybrid injector with a 200% nozzle.

Looks like you can purchase a copy of Minotaur for around $200. I assume you could just use a single shot tune written for your PCM code and tweak it for the larger nozzle and compensate for the difference between a hybrid vs. an A code? Thanks in advance for your help.

JD3020 · Dec 10, 2015

ja_cain said:
Thanks for the info! When you say "base tunes", do you mean base tunes for 250/200's or base single shot tunes? I'm sorry if my questions are a little elementary in nature, but I am trying to understand what everyone is starting with when trying to come up with a working tune for a hybrid injector with a 200% nozzle.

Looks like you can purchase a copy of Minotaur for around $200. I assume you could just use a single shot tune written for your PCM code and tweak it for the larger nozzle? Thanks in advance for your help.

If you buy Minotaur they will send you the stock file, and a handful of their files for stock injectors. I know i was running tunes for stock injectors on my 250/2's, but there were several things i didn't care for, but on the fueling side and the transmission. They can also send you some tunes for your set-up if you want to pay extra. But you need to buy the licenese for Minotaur which is $250(?), and then you need the stock file and the definition file for the tune which is another $250(?) per PCM code. You have to buy the files for each different PCM code you want to tune. I can write and burn a million tunes if i wanted to, but they will only work on TDE1(97 auto) PCM's.

Wish i could be more help, but its been so long since i've messed with it that i've forgotten about everything i figured out back in 2013.

ja_cain · Dec 10, 2015

Thanks JD. The license is $200 and the definition is $250. The bundle with the Hydra is like $695. Just couldn't justify spending that right now so I just got a Hydra with some GH tunes. Needed to have enough money for gauges/monitor too. So it looks like $450 will get you everything you need to get started if you already have a hydra or TS with a burner.

cjfarm111 · Dec 10, 2015

So why isn't there like a 130 or say 150% noodles?

ja_cain · Dec 10, 2015

cjfarm111 said:
So why isn't there like a 130 or say 150% noodles?

I hate small noodles too!

oke:

cjfarm111 · Dec 10, 2015

Haha sorry nozzles

ja_cain · Dec 10, 2015

It may just be a case of making things simple by offering a few standard nozzles sizes. That way tuning is much easier. I could be completely off base here though. Also, they can standardize the die sink edm tooling most likely involved with machining different nozzles. I think they also extrude hone some of them to make them bigger too. I'm curious about this too.

cjfarm111 · Dec 10, 2015

Maybe something in between a 100 and 200 would bet the best
If both worlds? Better idle and less hazing plus lower egts

bluedge8 · Dec 11, 2015

Thanks Charles, that was very helpful.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

PABowhunter · Dec 11, 2015

cjfarm111 said:
Maybe something in between a 100 and 200 would bet the best
If both worlds? Better idle and less hazing plus lower egts

Matt from gear head has said that for years.

04stroker · Dec 11, 2015

PABowhunter said:
Matt from gear head has said that for years.

I am sure that could be arranged by any injector builder. Just may be a more exspensive option until someone had them mass produced in big production runs.

Charles · Dec 11, 2015

I like a 300 more than a 200 for anybody wondering why not make something smaller than a 200... But I also like the high side of 600hp more than everything below. If you're under 600, the 200 can't be beat unless you just want a 200hp truck, like my wife's bone stock excursion.

400 is the only nozzle I've ever had break. The 200's seem really good on reliability, but as you get larger the chances of one cracking start going up.

PABowhunter · Dec 11, 2015

Charles,

What's the difference in idle quality between a 200% and 300% nozzles in your experience.

PABowhunter · Dec 11, 2015

04stroker said:
I am sure that could be arranged by any injector builder. Just may be a more exspensive option until someone had them mass produced in big production runs.

I know Matt liked the 80% edm nozzles because they are cleaner than the 100% that are extrude honed. I'm assuming the more honing, the harder it is to keep the tolerances of the nozzle holes close.

Disclaimer: I'm not totally familiar with the extrude honing process. I'm sure not all methods are created equal.

lincolnlocker · Dec 11, 2015

PABowhunter said:
Charles,

What's the difference in idle quality between a 200% and 300% nozzles in your experience.

if i remember correctly, he has said that he can make 400% idle smooth but it will haze.. to get rid of the haze it will idle crappy.. and i think that is with anything above 200%.

live life full throttle

Charles · Dec 11, 2015

ja_cain said:
Charles, any chance you could post up a video/sound clip of your truck idling cold and then at operating temp?

Right now the truck idles really, really well except if I come to a stop after pushing it hard, then it gets a little "lappy". Not really shaking the truck around, just doesn't have that same uniformity. It's something that I could get with some time, but I starting this file from dead scratch, and I've only actually tuned on it for maybe 3 hours, off and on about 5 times just pulling over on my way somewhere real quick.

If you let it sit still at idle for say 30 seconds or so, it will get so smooth that it gets into that low harmonic vibration like you feel next to a dumptruck or something, where the pictures on the wall in the building next to the truck seem like they're vibrating, lol. Like you start feeling a low harmonic vibration running through the truck. For me.... that's when it's nailed.

Now I still have something going on with temp modifiers because the other day my pulsewidth went noticeably up on a warm day and my idle gets weird when it's hot out. I don't think it the oil temp physically, I think it's the program. I've felt both and this feels like it's 80% program, 20% hot oil.

Idle smoke is no good for me right now. That's why I want to look at Dave's files when I get a minute and see what I can gather there. I've simply never cared before. Now that I have to sit at daycare with kids walking past the back of the truck I need to iron that out. Unless I'm driving and keeping heat in the motor I pretty much have a haze when it's sitting and cold. But.... I haven't yet tried to fix that. Just haven't had a free second.

04stroker · Dec 11, 2015

PABowhunter said:
I know Matt liked the 80% edm nozzles because they are cleaner than the 100% that are extrude honed. I'm assuming the more honing, the harder it is to keep the tolerances of the nozzle holes close.

Disclaimer: I'm not totally familiar with the extrude honing process. I'm sure not all methods are created equal.

Yeah all methods and equipment for the methods are not created equal. All of our nozzles are EDM then finished off by extrude hone and balanced. The extrude hone at the end basically smooths out the finish after the EDM and cleans them up. I would say most peoples are done the same way. However I have seen stock nozzles extrude honed to XXX over stock and if you do not have good equipment with someone who knows how to run it the product will not be good.

Hotrodtractor · Dec 11, 2015

Charles said:
400 is the only nozzle I've ever had break. The 200's seem really good on reliability, but as you get larger the chances of one cracking start going up.

There are those of us that have discussed going to a larger diameter tip for quite a while for this exact reason.