Tuning 101 - Thread Merged with Injector Posts

[superpsd]

Mine would cutout on a left turn only. After a little investigation I found that the icp harness connector was to blame. A little electrical tape and not an issue since. Charles do you ever mess with the ipr duty cycle map when making changes to icp desired?

 

[Charles]

Mine would cutout on a left turn only. After a little investigation I found that the icp harness connector was to blame. A little electrical tape and not an issue since. Charles do you ever mess with the ipr duty cycle map when making changes to icp desired?

Not yet. For some reason I think manual trans PCM's just do better in this area out of the box.

 

[Charles]

Throwing this out there for some discussion. My truck has had one main problem ever since i put the 250/200%'s in and started tuning it. If i'm really on the throttle putting the fuel to it in a condition where the converter is not locked, as soon as i take my foot out of the throttle the truck dies. For example, couple weeks ago i was using my OBS to pull a Chevy and a load of boulders(probably 6-7 tons) up a muddy hill. Had my truck screaming pretty good trying to make it, but couldn't. Every single time i'd get to the top of the hill and lost momentum, i'd get out of the throttle and the truck would die. It also does it on the street if i really mash the throttle then have to lift off quick, before it locks the converter. Sometimes it will die, other times it will hesitate and romp for a couple seconds before it catches itsself and goes back to idle. Doesn't matter if its a stock tune, or one of my own. Also changed from a 15* to a 17* pump.


Haven't touched Minotaur in well over a year so no clue what any of my values are at this point. Just looking for some ideas on where to start so i can try and figure it out.

Only time my red truck ever died after a hard pull was if I was blowing the tires off real hard at real low speed, like if it got up into OD and locked the converter when the truck was only rolling at like 15mph, it would obviously stall when I lifted because the converter couldn't unlock in time when the tires grabbed again. How can you be sure your converter isn't locking the second your lift???


Aside from that, a truck will sometimes romp when the converter unlocks right down close to idle speed as you coast to a stop. In my experience this is because the ICP map is too steep around idle rpm, or, the ICP at 0 MFD is way high at say 1200rpm+, and as you come down to idle rpm it suddenly drops. When the converter is holding the truck up at 1000 or so and then suddenly releases the engine right as you're coming to a stop the MFD will be at 0, so the MFD has to rapidly ramp up to "catch" the engine as it falls through idle rpm. At most you should just have a hard romp one time with no lull. If you get a romp, romp, romp, then more likely than not, the ICP map is moving too much around idle. This is in the direction of MFD more than rpm, unless the rpm is really moving around, then both.

Another trick is to watch your MFD values around idle when the truck is fully warmed up (on a scanner). Find out about the lowest it ever goes (when actually idling, not when coasting) and then go to your MFD table and at rpm points juuuuuuust above idle, set the minimum in the table to values just shy of those you scanned. This will "back up" the idle speed control algorithm by not even allowing things to ever get too low in the first place, greatly reducing the "bounce" effect. If you get these values too high at map points higher than idle you'll know, because the truck will "hang" a little coming back to idle if you stab it in neutral and let off. That means you've gone too far. If you get them right, the truck will just ease down to idle quickly, but not overshoot.

That's been my experience.


On Edit:

Oh.... and if you get the minimum MFD values too high across the entire map.... you better not let your right hand get lost because it's going to need to get that key switched off right after your crank the truck because sh*t's gonna get real.... real quick....

So don't do that! Don't ever have your minimum pedal MFD values above 0 at anything over say 1500rpm.

I knew a guy that was trying to figure out what this MFD table was one time and did that...




Also, if you get the minimum MFD too high at idle rpm, the truck will idle like dogsh*t and over rev your set point.

 

[JD3020]

I can't say 100% that the converter isn't locked, but IMO if the converter was locked the engine wouldn't be able to die. In my OBS once the converter locks it stays locked until i hit the brake or drop below 27mph, or give it enough throttle to unlock. Think it locks at 31mph. Also died every time i've been hooked to a sled and get to the end of the track. Goes from high RPM's full throttle, to 0 throttle and it dies. I don't think i've messed with the MFD, but i'll take a look at it.

 

[mandkole]

Agree that it sounds like the converter is still locked. It's probably just not responding fast enough to the lift from wot.

 

[lincolnlocker]

I can't say 100% that the converter isn't locked, but IMO if the converter was locked the engine wouldn't be able to die. In my OBS once the converter locks it stays locked until i hit the brake or drop below 27mph, or give it enough throttle to unlock. Think it locks at 31mph. Also died every time i've been hooked to a sled and get to the end of the track. Goes from high RPM's full throttle, to 0 throttle and it dies. I don't think i've messed with the MFD, but i'll take a look at it.

the converter doesn't unlock fast enough.. kills mine every time if i dont ease out of the throttle or immediately slap the skinny pedal a few times to allow it to unlock.

live life full throttle

god bless america and the farmer who feeds your fat ass

 

[m j]

this is a background noise post I would rather not make but...

I need beginner tutorials. links appreciated.
what hardware and software is needed? sounds like you oldtimers are using a lot of different hardware

what is the best PCM to start with? would rather buy the prefered one for both my 7.3 then work around a less desireable

I have a 97 f250 so a swap is expected. there is a dpc-422 nvk3 locally I can get for $200 but the threads I find all say pmt? is the desired

thanks for any info you can provide, feel free to clean this out of the thread
Michael

 

[2000wa250]

In

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[cleatus12r]

this is a background noise post I would rather not make but...

I need beginner tutorials. links appreciated.
what hardware and software is needed? sounds like you oldtimers are using a lot of different hardware

what is the best PCM to start with? would rather buy the prefered one for both my 7.3 then work around a less desireable

I have a 97 f250 so a swap is expected. there is a dpc-422 nvk3 locally I can get for $200 but the threads I find all say pmt? is the desired

thanks for any info you can provide, feel free to clean this out of the thread
Michael

Here is one of the biggest problems we will face here. Your 1997 CANNOT use a 99.5-01 PCM unless you want to rewire things and change some transmission hard parts. Because some people who know nothing about tuning always offer advice leaning toward EVERYTHING using "pmt base". Uh. No.

For the 1997 though, if it's an automatic, VCAB0_02 (TDE1) is the most popular because of the OBD2 compliance. Any DPC-202 PCM can run VCAB0_02 programming though so the actual PCM itself doesn't matter. If it's a manual, the same can be said about VDAB0_02 (MLE1) and a DPC-203 PCM.

As for the question about an NVKx or PMTx PCM, it doesn't matter. Either will be fine because the base calibration you'll likely use for your tuning and chip will be VRAA6S3 (PMT1) anyway. Although, in the grand scheme of it all, doing enough digging around will produce similar results from any of the PCMs. It's why I use an XLE4 in my 2000 pickup with 250/200% injectors and an AWA3 PCM in my 2001 F550 service truck at work.


Minimum of what you'll need (this is a list for everyone) to make it short, sweet, and easy:

1. Minotaur
2. Definition file for whatever you're tuning and for file size (224K for TS or 256 for Hydra).
3. Hydra (no burner) and Hydrabuilder and Hydraflash software OR TS chip/burner setup.
4. METRIC TONS OF MAN HOURS TO FIGURE OUT WHAT YOU'RE ACTUALLY DOING WITH THE TUNING.

Here's a list of definitions and base calibrations that are common among *cough* "professionals" *cough*:

1995-1997 Automatic uses VCAB0_02 (TDE1)calibration and definition.
1995-1997 Manual uses VDAB0_02 (MLE1)calibration and definition.
1997 Auto with AB injectors uses VEAB20B (MME7) calibration and VEAB20 definition.

Early 1999 49-state Auto uses VHAE9J2 (XLE4) calibration and VHAE9 definition.
Early 1999 50-state Auto uses VHAE9E2 (VCQ4) calibration and same definition.
Early 1999 49-state Manual uses VIAF3G4 (AWA4) or VIAF3G7 (AWA5) and VIAF3 definition.
Early 1999 50-state Manual uses VIAF3E4 (ZDR4) or E7 (ZDR5) and VIAF3 definition.

1999.5-01 49-state Auto uses VRAA6S3 (PMT1) and VRAA6 definition.
1999.5-01 50-state Auto uses VRAA6N3 (NMC1) and VRAA6 definition.
1999.5-01 49-state Manual uses VOAA7P6 (DAC3) and VOAA7 definition.
199.5-01 50-state Manual uses VOAA7G5 (ATA3) and VOAA7 definition.

2002-2003 49-State Auto uses TNAA4S2 (VDH2) and TNAA4 definition. Some use TNAA5S8 (VDH4) or TNAA7S3 (VDH5) in which case you'd need a TNAA5 definition.
2002-2003 49-state Manual uses TOAA4Z2 (AEB2) or TOAA5Z5 (AEB3) and will use a TOAA4 or TOAA5 definition respectively.

The 50-state 2002-2003 Autos use TNAA4N2 (QLJ2) and TNAA4 definition but some use TNAA5N7 (QLJ4) and a TNAA5 definition.

The 50-state 2002-2003 manuals use TOAA4M2 (ZRE2) and TOAA4 definition.

 

[superpsd]

The minotaur hydra package was a great deal. With the extension cable it takes seconds to plug in your laptop and load a calibration to the chip without having to pull it. Also with 15 postions I can build several revisions and test multiple tunes with the push of a button.

 

[Charles]

The whole lebbentybillion PCM's doing the same job thing really pisses me off.

Ask any one of them, what do you do....

Well, I run a 7.3 powerstroke diesel. And I have 5 million lines of code for transmission control.

Uh, hum.... so, why are there so many of you?

Oh..... because we like to overcomplicate everything to the 16th power.

That's also why we like to make maps that look like we shot a hydra-shok round into jello...



Fwiw, there's supposed to be some kind of alternator charging issue if I were to say, slap a DAC3 PCM into my 02 truck. But funny story, true story.... if you actually look at the PCM pinouts, there the SAME! So if something is going astray, it must be INSIDE the damn thing, or..... more likely..... just in the software/firmware.

I actually contemplated flashing an AEB file onto a DAC PCM I had.

Or...... cutting the part of the calibration I actually change out of the hex and pasting it into an otherwise DAC file and loading that onto a DAC PCM. Or, as much or as little as it took to get the actual calibration I wanted on the thing with as much of the bullllllllllllllllllllllllsh*t that tells it to F up the alternator un F'ed as needed.

I think the whole thing is a circle ***. I don't think it's ACTUALLY happening. I think it's what happens when your phone gets locked out of apps because of your operating system. There's not actually a good reason for it, but the software says no. Just like having to spoof windows 7/vista as windows xp to get a program to STFU and load. And then low and behold, there wasn't anything wrong in the first place.

Why do I get the feeling international trucks don't have this many different PCM's from 1994 to 2003?



It's like..... well, the xxxxx pcm looks for the MFD table from address xxxx to xxxx and the yyyyy pcm looks for it from address yyyy to yyyy, so they don't work....

And I'm like..... well..... the SOFTWARE tells the damn thing WHERE to look for the DAMN HEX!!! While we're in there CHANGING the SOFTWARE, why don't we bother to mention WHERE we have placed the damn MAP in the hex??????

So ford changed a baro sensor. Turn that thing off right from the start, lol.


Sorry for the rant, the damn 4000 pcms to do one freakin job deal has run it's course.

Why can't we un*** that? Or...... are all these pcm's just BEGGING for us to tell them WHERE to look for all these maps and we're just NOT doing it???

Do we need to have somebody like swamps just swap any and all non-standard internal parts to a unified standard for a fee, and then everybody can just run A pcm from now on? A cache code, A template. Doesn't matter if it's auto or manual, or if you happen to like a different radio station or toyos vs nittos??? Just one?

Would it really be that hard?

Again, are they ACTUALLY different? And HOW???

I have a low tolerance for things that have NO purpose.

If a put a p-7100 on anything from 1994 to 2003 they would all run EXACTLY the same. Because it's the SAME ENGINE!

Does this not occur to anyone?

I have run engines of all vintages with no change to anything. Even though these engines came out of trucks with all of these "special" pcm codes that are just so wildly different that nothing will ever work, yada, yada, yada.

Plug in, crank, BRAP..... running like a top.

All this PCM code mess is a bunch of prima donna crap. Somehow we let the dog wag the tail on that one. There's nothing special about these PCM's. I think 90% of it is just botched programming. Changing one portion of the code without updating the rest to make it aware of the new addresses.

Can we not flash more than 224 or whatever? I feel like we're leaving most of the damn code untouched. Why?

Why for instance, can we not alter the algorithm that governs idle control?

Where's the part where we define HOW pedal voltage is mapped to MFD so that if we wanted, any pedal voltage above that which did not initiate the base idle function combined with a given engine rpm resulted in one, un, uno, 1 value for MFD? Like, I don't care if the truck is bouncing 10 feet in the air with a driveshaft flying through the bed, as long as voltage does not vary, you stay right on the MFD line for that voltage???

Instead it will jitter around, like it's got correction going on. Trying to maintain an actual mass of fuel, as opposed to the numercial value in the map.


Anyway.... getting late, I'm rambling.

One more..... bs.....

LOL

 

[Strokin572]

Strongly agreed on your idea Charles... One single PCM would simplify things immensly. I'm just reading and learning as much as possible before I pull the trigger on Minotaur. Thanks for all the info you guys are giving and what you are doing to keep 7.3s progressing. It's actually making me want to keep a 7.3 around

 

[Charles]

Up Coughing my brains out again. I've graduated from Influenza A to Bronchitis...... yaaaaaaaaaay.

I want to clarify that I do not mean bs, as in I think the PCM's will work just fine despite what Cody has laid out. Not at all. I understand what he has said, and agree.

I mean bs that things are that way in the first place, and why we don't work to un*** that deal from the head end, as opposed to being the puppet of a clear *** show until the day we all die.

Or at least the possibility of investigating that option, in light of the SEVERE increase to hardware manipulation ability that exists now, vs say 15 years ago when we may have felt like all of the above was out of our control. Same goes for software manipulation ability now vs 15 years ago for that matter.

 

[m j]

thank you.
I have no issues with repinning the 97 and adding a tach driver (and the different sensors map act...)
the savings on definition files purchase equals the new pcm.

 

[cleatus12r]

The whole lebbentybillion PCM's doing the same job thing really pisses me off.

It sucks, but it's the way it is. Just pick one of the ones I listed and go with it. We can ignore 95% of the others out there.

Fwiw, there's supposed to be some kind of alternator charging issue if I were to say, slap a DAC3 PCM into my 02 truck. But funny story, true story.... if you actually look at the PCM pinouts, there the SAME!

NO THEY'RE NOT!

So if something is going astray, it must be INSIDE the damn thing, or..... more likely..... just in the software/firmware.

There is an issue. The 02 and 03 trucks use the PCM to control the voltage regulator on the alternator...there is no physical connection through a bulb filament like on the older trucks to "sense" vehicle voltage. This is why an 02-03 PCM will work on an older truck, but not vice-versa.

I actually contemplated flashing an AEB file onto a DAC PCM I had.

Won't work. The memory/processor inside the PCM is programmed to read certain addressing and the TOAA5Z5 file you are using doesn't correlate with the VOAA7P6 you want to put on it.

Or...... cutting the part of the calibration I actually change out of the hex and pasting it into an otherwise DAC file and loading that onto a DAC PCM. Or, as much or as little as it took to get the actual calibration I wanted on the thing with as much of the bullllllllllllllllllllllllsh*t that tells it to F up the alternator un F'ed as needed.

It's hardware, not calibration.

Why do I get the feeling international trucks don't have this many different PCM's from 1994 to 2003?

International only used Ford EEC-IV (yes, 4) PCMS until 1997.

All this PCM code mess is a bunch of prima donna crap. Somehow we let the dog wag the tail on that one. There's nothing special about these PCM's. I think 90% of it is just botched programming. Changing one portion of the code without updating the rest to make it aware of the new addresses.

Ford had to change something to keep the EPA happy. Even if there were ZERO changes to the calibration (which happened a lot). They also had to keep prying eyes out of the control side of things so changing addressing made it easy for Ford to keep hackers on their toes.

Can we not flash more than 224 or whatever? I feel like we're leaving most of the damn code untouched. Why?

The engine/transmission operation code is located in one bank of the programming. The rest is RAM/diagnostics/etc. "Bank 1" is the only thing we need. Besides, it doesn't matter if you're looking at a 32K, 48K, 224K, or 256K file.....the tuning software only modifies stuff that matters in Bank 1.

 

[STROKERBO]

I'm thinking of ditching my F-6 and going with the Hydra also.


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[N2GN2]

You'll love it!

Must just be a definition change to go to straight shot Injectors?

 

[mandkole]

Cody, thanks for the help and feedback here. Never realized the different PCMs were so physically different. Its definitely not as simple as we'd like it to be...

 

[cleatus12r]

You'll love it!

You can't say that. Some people have a mind for it and others just get really frustrated because it's something their minds can't work around. It's not a slight to anybody...we're all wired differently in our heads.

Must just be a definition change to go to straight shot Injectors?

It has NOTHING to do with the definition. You only need to buy the definition for your particular PCM hex code one time. The mapping in the calibration has to change for injector changes; the definition allows you to see the mapping.

 

[cleatus12r]

Cody, thanks for the help and feedback here. Never realized the different PCMs were so physically different. Its definitely not as simple as we'd like it to be...

I don't need thanks. It's something that I have been putting off doing for YEARS because I am one of the most cynical people in the world; that is, I see that people only look out for themselves and their best interests and will stop at nothing to copy and redistribute the hard work of others for their own monetary gain. It's easy to see when looking at others' files....nobody does their own thing anymore. They simply copy other companies' work and leave the same botched 6.5mS at 3000 PSI for 200% nozzles and rename it to something else.