Tuning 101 - Thread Merged with Injector Posts

cleatus12r · Jan 11, 2016

mikeeg02 said:
Mines an 01, standard, APX1 which I believe is DPC 421

An APX1 is a DPC-441 (odd duck) and when tuning for a DPC-421 is used, it causes a lack of power. You need to use VSAA4Q9 calibrations in that PCM.

mikeeg02 · Jan 11, 2016

cleatus12r said:
An APX1 is a DPC-441 and when tuning for a DPC-421 is used, it causes a lack of power.

My bad, I took a picture of the PCM DPC-441. Tried to go from memory. Either way, restarting the truck cleared the issue. Similar to what Charles described. I didnt change what was on the chip. Hasn't happened since, after I got datalogging equipment connected.

EDIT: VSAA4R9 is the tuning I am using. I think is defaulted to VSAA4Q9, but VSAA4R9 was the suggested to use file? If I remember correctly.

Charles · Jan 11, 2016

mikeeg02 said:
My bad, I took a picture of the PCM DPC-441. Tried to go from memory. Either way, restarting the truck cleared the issue. Similar to what Charles described. I didnt change what was on the chip. Hasn't happened since, after I got datalogging equipment connected.

EDIT: VSAA4R9 is the tuning I am using. I think is defaulted to VSAA4Q9, but VSAA4R9 was the suggested to use file? If I remember correctly.

Mine wasn't on a restart. You could drive it for 4 years and it would be a total dog as it was the whole time it was at the dealer where I bought it. But.... as soon as I connect the scanner, that pcm changes to another program. Throttle is totally different, trans, just different program.

Once you stuck the scanner on it and removed it, you could drive for another 4 years as long as you never lost power to the PCM keep alive. At which point it would revert back to dog mode and require the scanner to hook up to it again. You don't actually have to do anything with the scanner, just connect to the vehicle and take it straight off again.

Thing has a split personality.

Did I mention that I hate VDH???

cleatus12r · Jan 11, 2016

Charles said:
Did I mention that I hate VDH???

Why? Elaborate. Which "VDH"? 2,3,4,or 5?

PsdPullerJr · Jan 12, 2016

Charles, did you happen to buy the truck from a VW dealer? Lol
Really enjoy this thread, wish I had more to offer.

Charles · Jan 12, 2016

cleatus12r said:
Why? Elaborate. Which "VDH"? 2,3,4,or 5?

Can't control a trans if its life depended on it. Lock the converter.... LOL And the stock calibration intended to control the trans was written by someone with severe duty a-d-d.....
I swear the truck could make 600 shifts and 14,000 converter state changes in under a mile, on flat ground with the cruise set..... NO, we don't need to downshift to second gear and unlock the converter at 141mph!.... or so it would seem I swear...

Worse still.... if you finally wrangle the trans away from the total pile of fail, unplug it and tell it to go sit in the corner while a PCS handles things from now on, the VDH starts pouting and cuts MFD to 1/3 then full, then 1/3, then full, then 1/3 OVER and OVER and OVER and OVER again to the tune of about twice a second until you either go unconscious a driveshaft comes out from under the truck or you just give up and take your foot off the pedal, realizing that the Pcm is making the decisions, not you...

So far, AEB does what it's told. It will have a psychotic episode if it doesn't get an acceptable engine coolant temp input, but other than that little bs fest, it's good at knowing how to STFU and do what it's told.

I love how not a one PCM controlling a 7.3 ever gave a single damn about coolant temp, then AEB comes along and it's THE END OF THE WORLD if it doesn't see what it likes....

Just more ford calibration "experts" and their drama... They could learn a LOT from a bosch P7100 on just how much sh*t they think is SOOOOO important doesn't even exist in real life!

I would love to have sat a p7100 on the table in front of them when they were smoking pot and dreaming this sh*t up. Go ahead and point to the adder, multiplier, subtractor, mufferator table...

:doh:

cleatus12r · Jan 12, 2016

Maybe it's just you. I've put numerous automatic pcms in manual trucks with no issues at all except for a check engine light and a myriad of P7xx codes. Otherwise, the pcm didn't care if a transmission was hooked to it or not.

I'm thinking that you're using your ONE experience to base your opinion that all things 7.3 control is crap. I might be a bit more accepting but the shifting of the 01-03 trucks as they came from the factory is pretty darn stable and getting one to do what you want is not as hard as you make it out to be.....remember, you're dealing with a bad pcm to begin with.

Charles · Jan 12, 2016

cleatus12r said:
Maybe it's just you. I've put numerous automatic pcms in manual trucks with no issues at all except for a check engine light and a myriad of P7xx codes. Otherwise, the pcm didn't care if a transmission was hooked to it or not.

I'm thinking that you're using your ONE experience to base your opinion that all things 7.3 control is crap. I might be a bit more accepting but the shifting of the 01-03 trucks as they came from the factory is pretty darn stable and getting one to do what you want is not as hard as you make it out to be.....remember, you're dealing with a bad pcm to begin with.

I asked everyone I could find, including Bill how to make a VDH pcm stops surging without a trans attached...

Only answer came from guys having swapped in ZF6 transmissions who said you ALWAYS have to get the piece of sh*t out of the truck to make it stop surging. They ALL had the same surging issue. And only with VDH.

And if you think a VDH truck has a stable trans strategy stock.... then.... wow, lol.

cleatus12r · Jan 12, 2016

I guess since it's identical to the PMT2/3.....

I'll just keep doing what I do and keep knowing what works for me. Good luck with your endeavors.

Charles · Jan 12, 2016

cleatus12r said:
I guess since it's identical to the PMT2/3.....

I'll just keep doing what I do and keep knowing what works for me. Good luck with your endeavors.

You've driven a VDH PCM with a ZF6 behind it? Sounds like the answer is a resounding no.

Strictly Diesel · Jan 12, 2016

Charles...my VDH truck still has the VDH5 PCM with a PCS controller and no surge or anything off the wall that I've ever noticed. I could swear there is a single line where you change a 0 to a 1 (or a 1 to a 0) that tells it the auto trans isn't there...

Charles · Jan 12, 2016

For your viewing pleasure:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19ElyzH4h_Y&feature=youtu.be

Everyone I talked to that was running a manual behind a VDH equipped engine described that to a T. I only talked to one guy that said he had no surge with a PCS, and looking at the file he was running I believe it was because the way the file was written, the MFD never went over the 30's to 40's and I don't think it ever fell into the "load" range where the VDH goes full retard.

As for the stock VDH calibration, it would be perfect if I was running a 150hp 6 cylinder gasser...

Charles · Jan 12, 2016

Strictly Diesel said:
Charles...my VDH truck still has the VDH5 PCM with a PCS controller and no surge or anything off the wall that I've ever noticed. I could swear there is a single line where you change a 0 to a 1 (or a 1 to a 0) that tells it the auto trans isn't there...

There is. It just doesn't change anything.

N2GN2 · Jan 12, 2016

Split -> Single... Do I just need to drop the PW from 0.606 to 0.5 at 0 MFD?

cleatus12r · Jan 12, 2016

Try it and see what happens. But no......

Charles · Jan 12, 2016

N2GN2 said:
Split -> Single... Do I just need to drop the PW from 0.606 to 0.5 at 0 MFD?

I didn't do anything different when I tuned AD's for the first time in this gray truck a while back. Set pulsewidth based on smoke and power.

I honestly don't care if it's split or single. A split shot might as well just be an injector with a small nozzle. Nothing dramatic about the difference.

The main thing with tuning for the first time (IMO) is do NOT sit and spend hours dicking with programs on your desk. Don't make changes that you aren't testing in a running vehicle. Otherwise you'll spend a fortune in time for nothing.

There is no way to figure out what does what without driving down the road each time. Not even close. You'll be 180 out on a million things.

Secondly....

Always bare in mind the conceptual flow of the ford PCM for a 7.3 and don't ever step out of line or you'll just chase your tail to no end.

It goes from your right foot, which is the Mass Fuel Desired map, your right foot (pedal voltage run through an analog to digital converter yielding "Analog to Digital Counts", which are the numbers on the axis opposite rpm). From there you hit the Injection control pressure desired map, which is then based on the MFD value you just set and rpm. From there you get Fuel injector pulsewidth, which is based on the ICP value you just set and the MFD value you set earlier.

That is the order. MFD, ICP, PW. That is the conceptual sequence that gets from your right foot, into the cylinder for a given engine rpm. Start of injection independently decides when all of that times up with the crank.

Everything else works to trim those based on other things, like temperature and pressure.

Charles · Jan 12, 2016

cleatus12r said:
Try it and see what happens. But no......

How many times? lol.

I changed every value IN the damn thing before I went and bought a 300+ dollar PCM and started all over again on a blank file don't you imagine???

Tell me the magic value to change.

Plenty of people would love to know. Hell, I might put the thing back in there just because my trans temp gauge wouldn't be dead and I would be on a much more sharable platform again. Without the surge and without trying to convince it to control a trans, VDH would be fine.

I'll put this AEB on the shelf.

N2GN2 · Jan 12, 2016

Thank you Charles, that was very helpful!

When you switch from split to single you get a romp at idle. If I understood a romp calibration maybe I'd be able to undo the stock tuning to smoothly run a straight shot?