Tuning 101 - Thread Merged with Injector Posts

[N2GN2]

Exactly, cut idle pw and work up from there. Who's has the lowest pw with a quality idle?

 

[ja_cain]

Can't control a trans if its life depended on it. Lock the converter.... LOL And the stock calibration intended to control the trans was written by someone with severe duty a-d-d.....
I swear the truck could make 600 shifts and 14,000 converter state changes in under a mile, on flat ground with the cruise set..... NO, we don't need to downshift to second gear and unlock the converter at 141mph!.... or so it would seem I swear...

Worse still.... if you finally wrangle the trans away from the total pile of fail, unplug it and tell it to go sit in the corner while a PCS handles things from now on, the VDH starts pouting and cuts MFD to 1/3 then full, then 1/3, then full, then 1/3 OVER and OVER and OVER and OVER again to the tune of about twice a second until you either go unconscious a driveshaft comes out from under the truck or you just give up and take your foot off the pedal, realizing that the Pcm is making the decisions, not you...

So far, AEB does what it's told. It will have a psychotic episode if it doesn't get an acceptable engine coolant temp input, but other than that little bs fest, it's good at knowing how to STFU and do what it's told.

I love how not a one PCM controlling a 7.3 ever gave a single damn about coolant temp, then AEB comes along and it's THE END OF THE WORLD if it doesn't see what it likes....




Just more ford calibration "experts" and their drama... They could learn a LOT from a bosch P7100 on just how much sh*t they think is SOOOOO important doesn't even exist in real life!

I would love to have sat a p7100 on the table in front of them when they were smoking pot and dreaming this sh*t up. Go ahead and point to the adder, multiplier, subtractor, mufferator table...

:doh:

How does coolant temp effect injection parameters on the AEB?

 

[Charles]

Exactly, cut idle pw and work up from there. Who's has the lowest pw with a quality idle?

The pw at the bottom of the map has more to do with what happens when you place your foot back on the pedal. Get it too high and the truck will snap and break your neck plus the cruise will be a nightmare and if it's high enough the truck won't come down to idle. Get it too low and the bottom of the pedal will be dead. This is with a normal looking MFD table.

And the highest pw you can run at idle will usually yield the smoothest running engine. Lower ICP and higher pw is smoother. Long, casual injection event. When the duration shortens up the pressure has to increase to achieve the needed fuel quantity, which means a short, abrupt event. Since being on the ragged edge of the needed pw to fire the injector means some will fire and others may not consistently fire. That leads to a rough idle, because it's literally missing. Plus, the cylinders that are firing, have a short, high velocity spray that leads to a harsh event.

If you looked at it on a cylinder pressure transducer readout on a scope you would see the higher pressure, shorter duration event basically freezing the cylinder when it happened. Pressure dips a LOT, then it slams back up hard when the shot of fuel pops. A lower pressure, longer event dips much less (because the cold fuel is introduced slowly) and then pops back up much softer, because the fuel is introduced slower.

For low power.....(doesn't get any lower than idle) you want a slow, smooth event.

Lower pressure, higher duration.

The stopping point is when either A... the ICP won't fire the injector or B.... the truck is hazing unacceptably.

 

[N2GN2]

Did you mean EOT? I didn't think the PCM sees ECT.

 

[ja_cain]

Did you mean EOT? I didn't think the PCM sees ECT.

02 and up zf trucks do (AEB).

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[ja_cain]

The pw at the bottom of the map has more to do with what happens when you place your foot back on the pedal. Get it too high and the truck will snap and break your neck plus the cruise will be a nightmare and if it's high enough the truck won't come down to idle. Get it too low and the bottom of the pedal will be dead. This is with a normal looking MFD table.

And the highest pw you can run at idle will usually yield the smoothest running engine. Lower ICP and higher pw is smoother. Long, casual injection event. When the duration shortens up the pressure has to increase to achieve the needed fuel quantity, which means a short, abrupt event. Since being on the ragged edge of the needed pw to fire the injector means some will fire and others may not consistently fire. That leads to a rough idle, because it's literally missing. Plus, the cylinders that are firing, have a short, high velocity spray that leads to a harsh event.

If you looked at it on a cylinder pressure transducer readout on a scope you would see the higher pressure, shorter duration event basically freezing the cylinder when it happened. Pressure dips a LOT, then it slams back up hard when the shot of fuel pops. A lower pressure, longer event dips much less (because the cold fuel is introduced slowly) and then pops back up much softer, because the fuel is introduced slower.

For low power.....(doesn't get any lower than idle) you want a slow, smooth event.

Lower pressure, higher duration.

The stopping point is when either A... the ICP won't fire the injector or B.... the truck is hazing unacceptably.

Nice explanation! Hence why pilot injection came about. Stretch things out a bit down low.

It would be cool if they made those nifty pressure transducer/ glow plug things that would fit the 7.3.

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[Vader's Fury]

I believe that they do, but they are VERY expensive.

 

[ja_cain]

I believe that they do, but they are VERY expensive.

Would only need one to get an idea of what's going on.

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[mandkole]

The pw at the bottom of the map has more to do with what happens when you place your foot back on the pedal. Get it too high and the truck will snap and break your neck plus the cruise will be a nightmare and if it's high enough the truck won't come down to idle. Get it too low and the bottom of the pedal will be dead. This is with a normal looking MFD table.

And the highest pw you can run at idle will usually yield the smoothest running engine. Lower ICP and higher pw is smoother. Long, casual injection event. When the duration shortens up the pressure has to increase to achieve the needed fuel quantity, which means a short, abrupt event. Since being on the ragged edge of the needed pw to fire the injector means some will fire and others may not consistently fire. That leads to a rough idle, because it's literally missing. Plus, the cylinders that are firing, have a short, high velocity spray that leads to a harsh event.

If you looked at it on a cylinder pressure transducer readout on a scope you would see the higher pressure, shorter duration event basically freezing the cylinder when it happened. Pressure dips a LOT, then it slams back up hard when the shot of fuel pops. A lower pressure, longer event dips much less (because the cold fuel is introduced slowly) and then pops back up much softer, because the fuel is introduced slower.

For low power.....(doesn't get any lower than idle) you want a slow, smooth event.

Lower pressure, higher duration.

The stopping point is when either A... the ICP won't fire the injector or B.... the truck is hazing unacceptably.

Nice-- this gives a lot of insight to differences that Ive seen running with and without a chip. thank you

 

[Charles]

It would be cool if they made those nifty pressure transducer/ glow plug things that would fit the 7.3.

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Lol, how do you think I was able to watch live in-cylinder pressures and give the above account?

That was probably 7 or 8 years ago though, so I'm going from memory. Should be accurate though. Memory is usually pretty good.

 

[superpsd]

Only adjusting the ICP desired. I flattened the idle pleateu to 900 ICP. The PCM maintained a steady idle @650 rpms and it was loud.

 

[mandkole]

^^ same experience. All of my files are set at about 850, but when you pull the chip and the pressure goes to 525, it gets surprisingly quiet. Not quite as smooth though.

Bill had live tuned this truck and overall its pretty good, with exception of cold start smoke. (however, the GPs are of unknown age..)

 

[TyCorr]

^^ same experience. All of my files are set at about 850, but when you pull the chip and the pressure goes to 525, it gets surprisingly quiet. Not quite as smooth though.

Bill had live tuned this truck and overall its pretty good, with exception of cold start smoke. (however, the GPs are of unknown age..)

Same tuning, same injectors, different size nozzles, same smoke at cold start and my idle icp is not anything like that. Its right at 500. But in the "daily" tune its 700. That tune drives crappy so i dont use it.

I use my "tow" tune because my trans is stock/vb/converter. With my twisted trans i ran in the "race" file exclusively. Best characteristics to me. Had to be discerning towing about right foot application or you could be burning tires and getting hot.

 

[Charles]

Try it and see what happens. But no......

Did I miss the part where you said what to change in the PCM? I have no problem running a VDH if it's not flat retarded.

I can't try what I don't know. I already tried everything I could think of and everything suggested to me. Surge, surge, surge some more...

Did you already say what to try and I've missed it?

 

[Charles]

I take it the whole idea of telling the VDH not to worry about the trans being simple is as concrete now as it was when I asked the same question a few months back, before shelling out over $300 for an AEB...

Or did somebody want to speak up on that one?

I'm sure people wanting to run a manual or PCS controlled auto would be pleased to avoid a PCM swap, or.... driving down the road trying to toss driveshafts.

A solution gets talked about each time this comes up, but never materializes.

 

[Strictly Diesel]

Charles...if I knew why mine doesn't do what you showed in that video, I would tell you. There has to be something else in there, because I've never experienced what you showed and I've been running a PCS for a very long time now.

 

[Charles]

$100.... $200..... $300.....$400..... ???? What???

What does it cost to get information in this thread? How much does someone want in order to fork over info? How much does the file cost that tells a VDH to STFU?

I mean how much money do people actually make selling programs for a 7.3 each year that would actually be impacted by anything in this thread??? Why do I think it's less than noteworthy in the grand scheme of REAL LIFE outside 7.3 BULLsh*t hobby crap?

God, I'm so over it. The files usually SUCK anyway! I've never run one that didn't! Course I gave up years and years ago.

How many people are running a PCS or ZF6 behind a VDH truck in the UNIVERSE? 20? 10????? Say it's 20, and ALL 20 of them were going to pay $150 for a freakin file and would NOT still buy the file because A (singular) file was available on the internet.... that's $3000!!! WHO ***ING CARES!!! That won't even buy one POS junkyard engine! DOUBLE IT! $6000 WHOLE dollars..... hold on folks, because it still doesn't make a solitary damn in the real world.

Sorry for the rant.... lots of tuners have been kind to me over the years, but the whole thing with witholding certain non-critical items like it's a freakin $4,000,000 chunk of info is just pathetic in 2016. Nobody cared 10 years ago.

*** it.... I'll just continue to tune the sh*t and beat my way through the incorrectly labeled crap on my own and be sure to NEVER make the mistake of ASKING anything again from these guys that think they're working on Top Secret sh*t for NASA worth a trillion dollars...

Bunch of Prima Donnas....

I'm sorry I thought I could rally a peer-to-peer tuning movement. I'm sorry I potentially got anyones hopes up. I hate that. I apologize to Tim and Jim because apparently they were RIGHT.... because everybody is just as ***ING worthless as they indicated through their accounts of personal experiences. 200% files will never exist to anyone who doesn't sit in front of their own laptop and MAKE them! Unreal!

I have never posted, shared, or given info from anyone's file and I never will without permission. The file I posted here was based on Bill's 25T file, but that file comes with the software and everyone who's ever bought that template has it.

If that's any sort of problem at all, ****** it. Doesn't look like anybody gave a single damn anyway. No comments, NOTHING. NO feedback whatsoever. Hell of a peer response.....

I know when I've failed, and I'll own it. Sorry for the bullsh*t, and sorry I wasted people's time like the site administrator who changed the code to make .bin file uploads possible.

Foker out.

 

[N2GN2]

Keep your head up Charles. It's a new year and this will be slow to start, but we will get momentum.

 

[bluedge8]

What sucks is that some of are interested, but don't have the knowledge to help, sorry Charles.

 

[ja_cain]

I'm sure that there are some lurkers that are on the fence with the whole idea. They probably just need the right kind of nudge to get them contributing. There are a lot of guilt trips being thrown around about sharing secrets and that's definitely not helping.

I am of the same opinion as Charles, in that the losses in revenue would probably be miniscule with all of the other platforms that guys also tune out there. These trucks are such an old platform that this is just the kick in the pants it needs. It will probably facilitate more sales of ancillary items because more individuals while migrate to the platform if they know it can compete with the newer trucks once configured correctly. Plus, no emissions equipment to worry about.

You need to stay patient Charles and keep plugging away at it. Amassing knowledge take time. Once we get enough eyes on this thread (and people obtain/start playing with the required hardware), it will hit a critical mass. I work in the R&D world and I can't tell you the number of roadblocks I've hit over the years. We just keep plugging away at it and let the data tell us where to go next.


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