Upgrading turbos on the cheap

59fordcummins · Feb 19, 2014

Cab is going up soon enough, right now I have a 71 over the stock HP with a batmowheel. My question is, if I got a 59 wheel, and a 72.4 or 76 wheel and trusted a machinist to do it, could you take those turbos to those sizes? Or if not, could you buy just the housing and wheel?

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jdgleason · Feb 19, 2014

You won't be able to get just the precision wheels by themselves I know... Additionally, Elite modifies internals of their turbos. Plus, it's not as simple as machining the housing

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sootie · Feb 19, 2014

balancing is also a factor...

capt dong · Feb 19, 2014

i like the title of this thread.

Dzchey21 · Feb 19, 2014

I agree, turbo and cheap have nothing to do with eachother

Wayne · Feb 19, 2014

They do when chinese children in sweat shops are involved :axe: trust me, I saw it on mythbusters

59fordcummins · Feb 19, 2014

I just see 60 or 62mm upgrades for hx35 or he351's etc, the wheels come balanced already, done this on several turbos and never had an issue, I understand they are totally different turbos, just didn't know if the concept could transfer since it's in a stock housing and all.

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jdgleason · Feb 20, 2014

The wheels may be balanced, but it's the rotating assembly that matters.

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WoodBoy · Feb 20, 2014

jdgleason said:
The wheels may be balanced, but it's the rotating assembly that matters.

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Aren't most turbos component balanced separately?

78f100 · Feb 20, 2014

I took my elite 66 Vgt all the way apart when it went out. From what I can tell and what Tadd said its a total custom center section and shaft. It looks like it started life as a stock Vgt but has lots of machine work involved.

Mbatten · Feb 20, 2014

I had my housing machined and installed 59 works great 15 thousand miles with no problems.

Powerstroked162 · Feb 20, 2014

WoodBoy said:
Aren't most turbos component balanced separately?

*usually*, and I use that term loosely because there are differing views among a couple turbo places, most turbo chargers are balanced as a unit. Think about it roughly comparative to a car tire/wheel assembly. You can balance a rim until it's true. Say you could do that with a tire as well, even though you can't but for sake of the analogy just go with it lol. Regardless, Both items are balanced and true. Assemble them together... Chances of them staying in perfect balance of each other are slim. I'm not a turbo guru or a physics major but I'd imagine that pitch, drag, material, weight, rpm, size, all have an effect in some way on the assembly balancing. Change one or several enough, I'd be confident in saying it would cause issues somewhere

backwoodsboy · Feb 20, 2014

Powerstroked162 said:
*usually*, and I use that term loosely because there are differing views among a couple turbo places, most turbo chargers are balanced as a unit. Think about it roughly comparative to a car tire/wheel assembly. You can balance a rim until it's true. Say you could do that with a tire as well, even though you can't but for sake of the analogy just go with it lol. Regardless, Both items are balanced and true. Assemble them together... Chances of them staying in perfect balance of each other are slim. I'm not a turbo guru or a physics major but I'd imagine that pitch, drag, material, weight, rpm, size, all have an effect in some way on the assembly balancing. Change one or several enough, I'd be confident in saying it would cause issues somewhere

Some good information here if anyone is inclined to learn about vector addition and subtraction as it applies to dynamic balancing. Skip to page 13.
http://www.usbr.gov/power/data/fist/fist2_2/fist2-2.pdf

Mbatten · Feb 20, 2014

Have you ever balanced a rotating assy crank , rods, pistons, exc.I look at like that the wheels are supported.

blk350on20s · Feb 20, 2014

Mbatten said:
Have you ever balanced a rotating assy crank , rods, pistons, exc.I look at like that the wheels are supported.

But they also have everything on them or at least simulated on them. Change the size of something like a Bob weight or in this case wheel something is going to change.

powerstrokin15 · Feb 20, 2014

if you would like to buy just the VGT upgraded to a 59mm, billet wheel, journal bearings, and balanced. let me know.. we sell the barder chargers, along with the 73mm atmo if youre interested.

Mbatten · Feb 20, 2014

A balanced wheel for balanced wheel swap should be ok why would anyone want to do it as an assembly if there are no indexing or key ways . I'm not a turbo builder so I may be wrong but nothing is exact you will bolt a clutch or TQ converter to that crank .

powerstrokin15 · Feb 20, 2014

as far as balanced wheels, without balancing them on the charger. ive heard of several batmowheels grenading after install.. they are balanced wheels correct? i know some havent had issues, but know of a lot that have.

sootie · Feb 20, 2014

Mbatten said:
A balanced wheel for balanced wheel swap should be ok why would anyone want to do it as an assembly if there are no indexing or key ways . I'm not a turbo builder so I may be wrong but nothing is exact you will bolt a clutch or TQ converter to that crank .

being out of balance may cause a slight vibration and effectively shake the turbo to bits.

B585Ford · Feb 20, 2014

Mbatten said:
A balanced wheel for balanced wheel swap should be ok why would anyone want to do it as an assembly if there are no indexing or key ways . I'm not a turbo builder so I may be wrong but nothing is exact you will bolt a clutch or TQ converter to that crank .

IIRC turbos spin 120,000 RPM or so. At that speed, I assume even a little out of balance is going to problematic. As was referenced earlier about balancing large generators....there are many factors that contributed to how out of balance something spinning is, but RPM is a factor. IIRC, generators (at least in the US) run around 3600 RPMs because they produce 60 Hertz electricity.