Wastegate Setup Tial WG ??

Taylor D

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Ideally where is how it works.

For starts let's say you want a max of 60ebp.

Scenario 1: you put the exact amount of springs to when the gate opens mechanically once 60 psi is reached.
(Perfect situation, except no adjustability without changing springs)

Scenario 2: you have too much spring and is makes 80 ebp and then you add boost pressure to help unload the spring pressure and open the gate. Unfortunately once the boost creeps up the more the gate opens and them then the less boost a ebp it makes. So them you add regulated boost back in the top to dial in and counteract some of the boost that's now opening it too soon. You tune it till you are able to repeatably reach 60ebp that you want.
(Most complicated and problematic)

Scenario 3: you have enough spring to where it will make 40 ebp. Then you add regulated boost to the top to hold the gate closed longer. Dial it in till it reaches 60 ebp that you desire. (The most desirable IMO)

With scenario 3 you can adjust ebp and if the adjustment fails it will stall make 40 ebp as a failsafe. Plus it is rock solid perfect every time. No fluctuation as you get with scenario 2 using two boost sources.

Great explanation Morgan wish I lived closer I could have u help

Do u know the spring combination to get the tial mvr to 40 psi and is that normally included with the gate or do I need to order some different springs?

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Great explanation Morgan wish I lived closer I could have u help

Do u know the spring combination to get the tial mvr to 40 psi and is that normally included with the gate or do I need to order some different springs?

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I don't remember off the top of my head. But you can get it close without any extras.
 

Pan4905

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Is there any advantage/disadvantage to using a heavier spring set and using regulated boost to assist the gate opening? I know theirs an issue if the regulator fails and the gate never opens, but outside of that anything else?
 
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Is there any advantage/disadvantage to using a heavier spring set and using regulated boost to assist the gate opening? I know theirs an issue if the regulator fails and the gate never opens, but outside of that anything else?


I guess other than the pressure fluctuation caused by using a variable pressure as a reference. The biggest issue would be it gains nothing to do it over the other setup. If you already have it setup that way and it works then leave it. I wouldn't see why if starting from scratch you would though.
 

Pan4905

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I purchased the setup from streetdieselperformance.com and they have a diagram that shows plumbing it the way I described. It a precision gate and I have the heaviest spring set in it
 

Charles

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Is there any advantage/disadvantage to using a heavier spring set and using regulated boost to assist the gate opening? I know theirs an issue if the regulator fails and the gate never opens, but outside of that anything else?

Yes.

With a straight drive pressure controlled gate, the boost will be consistent and smooth, but you have no adjustment without disassembly and the boost curve will be shallower, in some cases very much so. Let me explain...

If you use a straight spring, then the force acting on the valve is simply that of the spring, and as such, in order for the valve to be open enough to control peak boost to your desired level, the valve must crack open well ahead of the point you desire it to be controlled to. In fact, it must crack pretty dang early so that the drive has pushed it far enough from it's seat at full song to bypass your desired boost. The bigger the gate the closer it can get before cracking, but the higher the rate of "bounce" where the boost will overshoot, then undershoot, then overshoot, then undershoot as the gate keeps cracking, seating, cracking, seating over and over...

The only advantage regulating to the top port with an open bottom port has over this scheme is the ability to dial your desired boost level with a simple twist of a regulator knob to artificially change the spring K by applying supplemental pneumatic force in conjunction with that provided by the spring itself. The ramp and onset curve issues remain the same.

The real advantage to boost controlled gating is when you have a multiport solenoid valve that can actually hold the gate slap shut right up to your desired boost and then rapidly start feeding boost from the top port, down to the bottom port to rapidly flip-flop the controlling force from holding the gate down, to slamming it open.

This becomes most evident on a shift when rpm rapidly drops nearly instantly. Either of the top two schemes will have a boost lull off a shift as the gate never fully reseats, and blows a lot of drive out the tailpipe while you're trying to get back on boost fully. In the electronic scheme, right off a shift the controller will slam full manifold pressure to the top port, full sealing the gate so that the charger(s) never lose a beat on a shift, and then shift the boost signal back to the bottom port again as the engine exhaust flow recovers off a shift.

Off a shift it is very evident if an engine has electronic boost control or not.


On Edit:

If you plotted each on a graph, the spring only, or top port regulated schemes would slowly rise in boost along the rpm scale until peak was reached, whereas the electronic controlled scheme would rise sharply up to desired pressure and run across the graph.
 
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Taylor D

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Who has used a Electronic Boost controller on there setup and which brand/model and is the electronic the way to go or is it a waste of $$ not beneficial over regulator??

Hope to go this figured out over the weekend ended up spending last nights free time installing my PMF 4 link setup while I had a spare hand to help.
 

Charles

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Who has used a Electronic Boost controller on there setup and which brand/model and is the electronic the way to go or is it a waste of $$ not beneficial over regulator??

Hope to go this figured out over the weekend ended up spending last nights free time installing my PMF 4 link setup while I had a spare hand to help.


Most people will not have experience with electronic control on a diesel. They will tell you it's a waste. For the most part, a regulator on the top port will get the job done and is perfectly fine. If however, you want the truck to remain on exactly your desired boost right through shifts and snap on boost all the time, the electronic control will be much snappier if used appropriately.

As far as a specific electronic controller model, I never found one I felt like buying as most are for gassers and didn't usually have provisions for higher boost level control like a diesel would need, although that may be different now. I use my PCS trans controller to run both of my solenoids for both gates.


Yet another option is a hallman manual controller with a spring loaded ball valve. I ran that for a while with notable improvement to response over spring/regulator only. Although as with the solenoid, it requires you to run your spring/reg pressure a bit higher than what would normally hit your desired boost so that the hallman can regulate some manifold signal to the bottom port to open the gate a bit to hit the desired boost. This way it can hold the manifold signal off of the bottom port until just before your desired boost and then pop it's internal ball, allowing signal to hit the bottom port, sharply decreasing spool, as I said, especially off a shift.

I have run a couple hallmans. They are probably a real good option for you. I actually sent one to a guy years ago for a compound setup, don't know if he incorporated it or not. Brian, if you're reading this, and you don't want that thing send it back to me, lol.


On Edit:

http://www.hallmanboostcontroller.com/index.html

Don't know if it's the same now, but years ago they offered a much heavier spring and ceramic ball that worked real well on my truck.
 
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devdiesel

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I will vouch for the hallmans controller, Morgan sent me one for my drag truck, more money but worth it for the quality, I also found out that it allows for a really neat mounting location inside the cab (fits right in the cigarette lighter hole, very clean and accessible)

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