Weird no start issue

[DZL JIM]

Our '04 E350 shop van, we've gone through with normal stuff like head studs, egr delete, reg. return, replaced stand pipes, dummy plugs, HPOP line (not typical STC), etc.
This has happened twice now.
Shut truck off to run into store, came back out and wouldn't start.
Engine woud fire right up briefly, then stall like lack of fuel. Turn key, cranks over, fires then stalls. Will do a dozen times. Let it sit there for a few mintues then fires up like nothing is wrong. Pushing in the throttle during crank does nothing. Usually has white smoke out exhaust when it does this, too, which makes me think fuel pump, but it has less than 1k miles on it.

Also, replaced the fuel pump and all new injectors 3 months ago when we started driving the van.

Not sure if the tune would casue this, as we put a bunch of miles on it before this current tune, and it's done it twice since the tune. Not trying to blame the tune, just trying to figure out what's going on and where to look.

Thanks.

 

[Atsah]

Believe it or not, I was trying to help out a guy I know with this same problem, I was thinking IPR was headed south until he told me he was useing Cempeco 15W40 and the last time he changed it was 9K miles ago.. Changed it out and he hasn't had a problem since..

Any chance oil is your issue?

 

[Lassie]

Sounds like a classic high pressure oil leak. Hot no starts are most common symptom. Sounds EXACTLY like a blown dummy plug oring. I know you said they were changed, but all it takes is a knick in a ring and the oil will eventually cut it in half.

 

[DZL JIM]

Oil has maybe 500 miles on it.

...So let it cool down and the 'bad' ring seals up and it fires like there's no issue?
Any HPOil issue I am familiar with takes 10 min to 1/2 hr to cool down enough to make a difference, not just a minute or 2 like this thing. And this has been about a month in between occurances. I figured HPOil issue would be more frequent. ??

Could be HPOil side, you never know, I'll keep that in mind.
Thanks.

 

[Lassie]

This pick is one I had this weekend....Once truck was fully up to temp, would not restart for 2-3 minutes. For the next 5 or so, a long crank would start her. Truck could make 3500 psi, but the leak was so bad, a twenty gallon capacity compressor had to continuously run to stay over 90.

 

[Mdub707]

He's also saying this is intermittent too, not all the time. I would think if it was a high pressure oil leak, it would happen all the time.

Can you monitor ICP when this happens, or is it too random to catch? ICP actual, ICP desired, and IPR % would be good to see, as well as FICM sync maybe.

 

[DZL JIM]

I'd have to drive around and wait for it to happen again, with the computer hooked up.

Completely random, has only done it twice in 1000k miles.

 

[Mdub707]

1000k? Like a million miles? LOL

1k miles, aka 1000 miles. Sorry, I had to.

Yeah, that's going to be a tough one to get nailed down with it being so intermittent. I wonder if the FICM is losing SYNC and not allowing it to start.

I can't imagine the tune doing it though...

 

[DZL JIM]

Ooops, 1k miles, nice catch.

I'll have to watch FICM sync, always wondered what that was for.
Wish scan gauge would read that. ??
Thanks.

 

[Mdub707]

This explains FICM SYNC pretty good: http://www.fordtechservice.dealerconnection.com/vdirs/subsites/diag/6.0L_FICM_Guide.pdf

 

[03stroker]

You really need to smell the white smoke when it does this... if it smells like fuel and it has a blueish tint ...it could be a problem with the egr...even though it was deleted this white smoke could be the truck getting too.much fuel like the egr valve is stuck open .. maybe o ring or something might be bad on the delete

 

[DZL JIM]

Update, sort of....
Still vary random issue. Truck failed to start once while puking white smoke during cranking. Let it sit for 1 mintue and fires right up and runs fine.
Yesterday, truck shut off going down the road. Cranked and puked white smoke. Sit for 1 mintue and fired up and ran fine.
I wasn't driving either time, nor is laptop/scanner on it. We've put a bunch more miles on it and it's totally random.

FICM? It is a rebuilt/58v updated FICM, starting to wonder if something's up with that. ???
The short fire-up and white smoke is telling me it's getting fuel, oil, and signal, why the heck is it not staying running??

 

[Big Angry Hillbilly]

Any codes?

 

[Mdub707]

My buddy had an almost identical problem to this with his FICM. Wouldn't start, wouldn't start, he'd wack the top of the ficm with a screwdriver/hammer almost like you would on a starter and the truck would fire up just fine and run fine again... definitely a weird issue. You'd almost have to monitor FICM voltage while you're driving and see if there is a correlation. Or just try another FICM.

 

[DZL JIM]

Not sure on codes, someone is borrowing the van now, when it comes back I'll check.
If it does it again soon I'll swap the IDM and see what happens.
Just doesn't make any sense...

 

[DZL JIM]

Van is dying (well, won't re-start) quite often now and becoming harder to start when it acts up.
Typical EGR codes and 2614 (cam) and 2617 (Crank).
I cleared them while it wouldn't start and those codes never came back. Tried to restart van for a good 3 or 4 mintues, no other codes popped up.
FICM sync shows good and Sync shows good while it's briefly idling.
Everything else looks good on the scanner, too, not sure what to look at next.

Swapped FICM and no change.

Can a Cam or Crank sensor act up like this? I might just have to start swapping to see.
ECM?

 

[DZL JIM]

Ok, so van totally would not start up no matter what.
So for the heck of it I retuned it back to stock tuning and it started and ran perfect.
Loaded the hot tune back in and it would not start up.
Loaded Tow tune in and starts and runs fine.

Guess I got to call my tuner.....

 

[Mdub707]

Wow, that's really interesting. I still find it hard to believe it's the tune, probably just something in the tune changes the truck to the point it has starting problems... but it's not like it's always done this, just gradually got worse and worse right?

 

[Atsah]

Doesn't surprize me, the tune probably changes things enough that it makes a differance when parts get older and more worn.. I have had the same thing happen more than once..

 

[Mdub707]

Doesn't surprize me, the tune probably changes things enough that it makes a differance when parts get older and more worn.. I have had the same thing happen more than once..

Exactly, I'm thinking new tunes or switching tunes isn't really fixing the problem, it's just masking the problem.