ATS 3000 vs 4000

[f100cleveland]

I have the ATS 4000 turbo on my truck and it just isn't quite what I want. Sounds like besides jumping into the fuel system and going with injectors and dual fuelers for sure, there isn't a whole lot that can be done to get rid of the dead area on the bottom. So i called ATS to see if they could put a different exhaust housing side on it to get it to spool a little quicker and he said no. He is suggesting I go with the 3000 since it will bolt right in place of the 4000.

I tried searching for it last night but there is little to nothing on the net about the 3000 on a 6.7. Does anyone have experience with one? The drop from a 63 to a 58 is a huge jump.

I am mainly daily drive but need to tow our 36' enclosed gooseneck race trailer or 36' gooseneck flat deck trailer.

Tech at ATS said that with the 4000 and stock fuel, I'm barely even touching the middle range of that turbo and with the 3000, I'd be using most of the turbo and the truck would be faster and make more power everywhere compared to the 4000.

I'd like to go with a modded vgt but since I all ready have the 4000 kit, the price of just a 3000 doesn't sound bad since it'll just interchange with the 4000.

Or, does anyone else know of a turbo that will go in place of the ATS stuff?

 

[Breaking Habits]

I have the ATS 4000 turbo on my truck and it just isn't quite what I want. Sounds like besides jumping into the fuel system and going with injectors and dual fuelers for sure, there isn't a whole lot that can be done to get rid of the dead area on the bottom. So i called ATS to see if they could put a different exhaust housing side on it to get it to spool a little quicker and he said no. He is suggesting I go with the 3000 since it will bolt right in place of the 4000.



I tried searching for it last night but there is little to nothing on the net about the 3000 on a 6.7. Does anyone have experience with one? The drop from a 63 to a 58 is a huge jump.



I am mainly daily drive but need to tow our 36' enclosed gooseneck race trailer or 36' gooseneck flat deck trailer.



Tech at ATS said that with the 4000 and stock fuel, I'm barely even touching the middle range of that turbo and with the 3000, I'd be using most of the turbo and the truck would be faster and make more power everywhere compared to the 4000.



I'd like to go with a modded vgt but since I all ready have the 4000 kit, the price of just a 3000 doesn't sound bad since it'll just interchange with the 4000.



Or, does anyone else know of a turbo that will go in place of the ATS stuff?

I've sold numerous streetmax kits to guys in your exact spot.

Those chargers are nothing special, with lax driving characteristics, and minimal power potential. Unfortunately a lot of people seem to fallen to the latest and greatest trend when they hit the market.

Anyone who was around during the big 6.0L days remembers how well their 6.0 non VGT kits went over.. And their "awesome" 4 year old technology drop in 6.4 atmosphere turbos..

I would bet their s358 (3000) barely makes much more if anymore than a billet wheeled 15 charger. And be a lazy POS in comparison.

On that note I have a promotion running through Monday still if you need help with a VGT.

Fortunately you'd probably be able to sell this kit on eBay or something to someone else who drinks the "nonvgt or nothing" koolaid.

 

[Six_Sloww]

They tell you that you can't switch housings, yet they have 3 housings listed.

Does the kit have a t3 footprint? Because they only list t3 options from the 3000 series turbo. My experience with t3's is they spool terrible, even with a tight housing.

It's clear ats doesn't know how to properly design a turbo kit, there are well designed non VGT kits that perform well. Nothing will have the broad performance of a VGT though, there will always be somewhere you have to adjust the tune to avoid flat spots if towing is your main purpose.

Question is do you want to gamble with a turbo swap that may not work, or go with something proven?



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[sootie]

sounds like you would be the perfect candidate for a streetmaxR and maybe a 15 pump if your truck is and 11-14.

whos tunes are you running?

try and sell that ats if you can...

 

[jcain]

A dual fueler would wake that thing up alot

 

[f100cleveland]

So it sounds like the general opinion is that the ATS stuff is junk.

I'm not sure if it's the t3 or t4 flange.

I have H&S tunes done by:
GH
Midwest Diesel
H&S custom tunes

SCT I have Voodoo tunes (but no idea who writes his). The Voodoo stuff lites the turbo the quickest without question. Must have a lot of timing compared to the others cuz at idle, the turbo whistle is almost twice as loud as the others.

Jcain - So a dual fueler would be able to push more fuel down low since it'll have twice the volume available? How does that effect just normal driving or towing tho? When I asked about that previously to the tuners, I was told no, adding pump would have nothing to do with how it lites, I'd need injectors.

What base is the 4000 built on? Is there anyone who could modify the exhaust side for now to get me by til I get things figured out. (We just moved into a different house so fun money is tight atm)



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[NCSU dirt man]

A dual fueler would wake that thing up alot

any dyno numbers with your new streetmax setup?

 

[Breaking Habits]

So it sounds like the general opinion is that the ATS stuff is junk.

I'm not sure if it's the t3 or t4 flange.

I have H&S tunes done by:
GH
Midwest Diesel
H&S custom tunes

SCT I have Voodoo tunes (but no idea who writes his). The Voodoo stuff lites the turbo the quickest without question. Must have a lot of timing compared to the others cuz at idle, the turbo whistle is almost twice as loud as the others.

Jcain - So a dual fueler would be able to push more fuel down low since it'll have twice the volume available? How does that effect just normal driving or towing tho? When I asked about that previously to the tuners, I was told no, adding pump would have nothing to do with how it lites, I'd need injectors.

What base is the 4000 built on? Is there anyone who could modify the exhaust side for now to get me by til I get things figured out. (We just moved into a different house so fun money is tight atm)



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Whoever told you that, I'd really like to know, because you are being mislead. A stock 6.7 Injector can 200MM of fuel with proper volume supply. People keep thinking these are 6.0 and 7.3s.. I dont think 95% of the population can actually conceive how efficient the Bosch Piezo injectors really are.

A little larger nozzle might help, but without dual fuelers, there's literally no benefit to it whatsoever, because it takes more than what a stock 2015 pump can even supply to properly fuel a stock injector.

Figure a stock 2015 pump can supply enough fuel to support 1650us of duration, where as full flow would be measured at roughly 2400us of duration. There's quite a bit of volume to be desired.

 

[f100cleveland]

Whoever told you that, I'd really like to know, because you are being mislead. A stock 6.7 Injector can 200MM of fuel with proper volume supply. People keep thinking these are 6.0 and 7.3s.. I dont think 95% of the population can actually conceive how efficient the Bosch Piezo injectors really are.

A little larger nozzle might help, but without dual fuelers, there's literally no benefit to it whatsoever, because it takes more than what a stock 2015 pump can even supply to properly fuel a stock injector.

Figure a stock 2015 pump can supply enough fuel to support 1650us of duration, where as full flow would be measured at roughly 2400us of duration. There's quite a bit of volume to be desired.

Are we talking two different things here? Obviously dual fuelers will help up top but I was asking about initial spool-up. I wouldn't think the stock cp4 would have trouble supplying the injector with whatever it wanted down low. But I could be wrong?


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[Breaking Habits]

Are we talking two different things here? Obviously dual fuelers will help up top but I was asking about initial spool-up. I wouldn't think the stock cp4 would have trouble supplying the injector with whatever it wanted down low. But I could be wrong?


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I don't see what adding a ton of fuel to that charger is really going to do down low.

Yes it may become a little less lax, but the change really wouldn't offset it to any benefit.. Remember, when you fuel a non vgt really hard down low to get the heat up, they smoke, and HARD.

But, you can fuel stock injectors pretty hard on these trucks. They really arent that big of chargers for how laggy they are.

Remember one crucial fact here, the harder you fuel them down low, the situation with your connecting rods gets scary.

 

[WhiteMamba_Scorpion]

Get a VGT from Jared and don't look back. If that ATS setup is that laggy that's pretty ****ty IMO. My 68 non vgt spools up great but I can easily over fuel it down low and when Jared says it smokes hard he is not lying. Even my baby 15% nozzles smoke something crazy down low if I lug it.... and the rods... well they leave a lot to be desired. Wouldn't worry about rods with one of Jareds VGTs, 15 pump, and some tuning. It'll be a whole different truck to be honest.

 

[Breaking Habits]

Get a VGT from Jared and don't look back. If that ATS setup is that laggy that's pretty ****ty IMO. My 68 non vgt spools up great but I can easily over fuel it down low and when Jared says it smokes hard he is not lying. Even my baby 15% nozzles smoke something crazy down low if I lug it.... and the rods... well they leave a lot to be desired. Wouldn't worry about rods with one of Jareds VGTs, 15 pump, and some tuning. It'll be a whole different truck to be honest.

Thanks Petey!

 

[f100cleveland]

Hey guys, so I just measured the flange on the 4000 and it is a t3. Would it be worth the effort to just get the new t4 flange and the t4 hot side for that turbo?

Talking to Dallas @ H&S and he had me lock it in manual 4 and from 1300 or so, floor it and see where it spools. It doesn't really take off til about 2050-2100 rpms. So like what was mentioned earlier, is the t3 killing spool up on this thing that bad?

 

[dsmracing1]

Hey guys, so I just measured the flange on the 4000 and it is a t3. Would it be worth the effort to just get the new t4 flange and the t4 hot side for that turbo?



Talking to Dallas @ H&S and he had me lock it in manual 4 and from 1300 or so, floor it and see where it spools. It doesn't really take off til about 2050-2100 rpms. So like what was mentioned earlier, is the t3 killing spool up on this thing that bad?

Jesus that's rough, I'm making 30+ lbs of boost and screaming by then with my streetmax turbo...

 

[WhiteMamba_Scorpion]

2000rpm I'm making 10lbs of boost already with a 68mm non VGT for comparison

 

[f100cleveland]

Here is the video of the test I did. Maybe I'm expecting too much? I tried this on my 2013 f350 cab and chassis work truck also and it doesn't start to pull til about 1550.

What does the 66mm street max do when you do this same thing?

H&S custom tune
https://youtu.be/klzJ6vLCZuw

Midwest Diesel Tune
https://youtu.be/wPKt6yHtEMQ


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[dsmracing1]

I will have try and get a video when I finish my shift at work. I know being a VGT its naturally going to light up quicker. I'm by no means a specialist when it comes to judging non VGT spool up so I can't really comment on that...

 

[bdm1981]

Not trying to talk you out of changing it but what exactly it is you don't like about the ATS turbo? I have had mine on for about 10 months now and have no regrets. Sure there are better options out there but why change what you already have. Me personally I would put dual fuelers on it and leave it at that unless you want a bigger turbo which will have somewhat of the same effect what you have now. VGT or non VGT. I will say this that turbo is asking for more fuel to unlock its potential. I'm on stock fuel still and don't have any problems lighting the tires up from a dead stop. Just my 2 cents worth...

 

[JRLott]

Grab a vid of the 4th gear 1300 rpm test he did to compare.

 

[bdm1981]

I get time I'll have to get the ole truck out and compare with what his videos are showing. Mine has the normal lag like most non VGT turbos do but I'm pretty sure mine lights up quicker than that. I could be wrong. Haven't drove it in a while.