Goal: 500RWHP TowBoss F-350

colo_dually · Aug 22, 2012

Purpose: I am looking for any feedback, comments, and information that can be provided to prove or disprove this plan.

I will of course keep this thread up to date as my build progresses, and results are recorded.

NOTE: This 500HP file and goal is only used as a performance tune, not a file that will allow for heavy towing. (I am getting a lot of this question, and I wanted to make this clear.) For towing, the airflow improvements matched with stock programming, and towing SCT files, will provide plenty of enjoyment towing. The truck already tows like a dream with its lower gears.

Starting Point: 2007 F350 CCLB DRW TowBoss with the 6.0L PSD, 5R110, 4x4 and 4.30 gears. (Current Weight: 8280# full tank, with driver)

ARP Head Studs
OEM Gaskets
OEM Oil Cooler
OEM EGR Cooler
Edge Insight
Autometer Gauges: EGT, Trans Temp, Fuel Press, Oil Press, and Voltmeter
Coolant Filter
3.5" DP to Stock CAT to 5" MBRP Exhaust system
SCT X3 Tuner, with files from IDP.

Goal: 500RWHP out of this truck with stock injectors, Donaldson air filter, and maintaining all emissions hardware on board. A stretch of the potential of these trucks, but something I think is worth pursuing.

Mind you guys that stock injectors are being kept to prevent any heavy towing concerns at elevation. The stock air filter is being kept for its ability to filter better than aftermarket in dusty environments.

The 500RWHP goal is purely under a performance program, one I will not tow on. I will be having two towing files written for this new setup, on without any additional fueling for towing near my max weight, and the other for lighter loads that will be more aggressive (say 325 - 350 RWHP range.) I don't intend to tow with the performance files, due to the cylinder pressures related to those tunes. This is a high-altitude, and heavy load build first and foremost, but with what can be gained by the loading of a tune, I figure I'll chase that 500HP benchmark while I'm at it.

Mods most also be compatible with stock programming, again a personal requirement for when this truck tows heavy in the high country. And not compromise my GCWR or 26,000#.

How I intend to make this come together:

Mad Turbo Werks Turbocharger: The Hybrid (64.7x88mm 0.58A/R 13 Blade).
This turbo should be able to light quickly enough under stock programming, and not hinder towing. Supporting mods at this time a metal cold-side IC pipe, and addition of an independent boost gauge - 60psi Autometer to match my other gauges.

I am also looking for the best effective way to test the new turbocharger when I get it installed. Looking for suggestions of PIDs/Parameters you guys think will be beneficial.

FICM Tuning: IDP's Mild (+25HP) or Moderate (+40HP) FICM file to aid in spooling the turbo on the low to mid range, and throttle response.

New SCT files: To incorporate and dial in the new turbo and FICM tuning. I have a couple of tuners I'm interested in working with at this point, but open to suggestions.

With next Oil Cooler (Job is coming due): Continue to run the OEM Oil Cooler at this time, but the EGR cooler will be upgraded to the BPD unit and I'll be switching from Ford Gold to EC-1 rated ELC. (Not related, but may answer some folks' questions.)

Ported Intake Manifold: Critical point here in getting more air to the motor, this is the complete U-shaped manifold, not the intake elbow often marketed as such.
-I have a great thread here, and looking for more input on:
http://powerstrokearmy.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22097
-The other option for me is to take this job on myself, I'm collecting information to make this work best.

Inter-cooler: Not sure if this will be necessary to reach this point or not. Leading option is the unit from Banks Power (only piece of their gear I'll install). Due to the conflict of information on their IC pipes reducing performance, I will be testing this unit with the stock 3" piping (with adapters), and the Banks 3.5" piping.

Transmission: Nothing planned to get 500RWHP to the ground, these 5R110 units are plenty strong at this power level.

Fuel System: I won't tear into the fuel system unless the need arises. I have good fuel pressure now, running my X-Race file. After everything gets re-written I plan to re-evaluate the fuel system if pressure can't be maintained.

Tools for the Track/Dyno if I'm close but not there: The following will be on hand if I dyno or run the track and am close to the 500HP mark, but am being held back.

-Aftermarket Air Filter that runs with stock filter's box.
-CAT Delete Pipe
-EGR Valve Plug

For the Army: Looking for your feedback and recommendations.

05wh250 · Aug 22, 2012

I would suggest upgrading the direct drive solenoid in the transmission.

Spindrift · Aug 23, 2012

Not directly related, but what are you towing?

amarillo250 · Aug 23, 2012

opcorn:
sounds like a good read with real world results

06-sixoh · Aug 23, 2012

Sub'd

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colo_dually · Aug 23, 2012

05wh250 said:
I would suggest upgrading the direct drive solenoid in the transmission.

Working on how I'm going to upgrade the transmission for this build. I am debating throwing parts at the stock unit, or get a built unit from the start.

Spindrift said:
Not directly related, but what are you towing?

The objective is to be confident hauling horse trailers in the Rockies. 26K Gross is what my truck is rated for, and that is the goal of this build.

amarillo250 said:
opcorn:
sounds like a good read with real world results

I will be keeping the thread up to date as modifications are made, and data is recorded.

IdahoF350 · Aug 23, 2012

Before you get too deep into this, have you considered hitting a dyno to see where you're starting? There are some considerations here, like testing the truck with all four wheels on the rear to get a true number. The run it at the drag strip dyno haters will tell you a dyno isn't everything, but if you use the same machine and test under the same conditions and procedures every time you can see relative gains or losses.

Also, I know you want to rule out injectors and possibly fuel system, but what about the HPO system? Your '07 may or may not have the scoop in the passenger up pipe as well, which is an issue in itself. And you should definitely look at the intake elbow for an air flow improvement if you're seriously going to do an intake manifold.

Be careful relying on tuning to get you to 500rwhp with stock injectors. I'm not about to say it can't be done, but the injector duty cycle may border on unacceptable. Also the start of injection timing (even with excellent FICM programming) may prove dangerously aggressive to extract that power level from stock injectors. You are trying to double the power output from the stock injector after all.

I'll be watching this with interest.

colo_dually · Aug 23, 2012

I would like to get a solid set of Dyno numbers before I start moving forward, however I haven't found a shop within distance of my duty station that allows for that to take place. As far as a strip, there is zero chance I'll be able to make a pass with considerations of tracks near my duty station.

For the pulls, I'd like the ability to run all four rears on the dyno, however I know that will depend on the individual dyno I find.

Stock injectors shouldn't require a change of the HPOP, even at the level I'm attempting to take them to. Fuel system may be upgraded as I get tuning sorted out with the new turbo, I'm going to allow for the pressure drop to tell me it requires attention.

I'm not sure what scoop you are talking about with the '07 passenger up pipe?

For the intake elbow, I'll remain stock until I do the IC. I want to isolate the gains from the intake manifold alone in my feedback, and I don't see the elbow being the hold up here. Again, this may become a part I add to the on-hand list for the dyno pull.

Right now the benchmark is 485RWHP on stock injectors, and a MTW Stage 2 (same compressor that the Hybrid runs). I agree that tuning will need to be worked on though, I feel the aforementioned truck was a little overfueled with the FICM it was running that day (PHP-Herc). I think with this turbo dialed in, as much of a tax on the injectors that it will be, this number is achievable.

PowerstrokeJunkie · Aug 23, 2012

Good luck. Ill be watching you. My work truck is almost an exact match to your truck with the baseline mods already done like you have. Its the perfect towing machine, it does tow something more often than not, sometimes upwards of 30,000 gcvw. It is a joy to tow with, is quiet and efficient with no egt worries whatsoever. I understand your hosepower goals but you're going to be a little far fetched for that elusive '500hp' goal. My advice is to not go so far on the turbo that you compromise any of the towing ability you now have. If you do, your truck will suck for its intended purpose

IdahoF350 · Aug 24, 2012

colo_dually said:
I would like to get a solid set of Dyno numbers before I start moving forward, however I haven't found a shop within distance of my duty station that allows for that to take place. As far as a strip, there is zero chance I'll be able to make a pass with considerations of tracks near my duty station.

For the pulls, I'd like the ability to run all four rears on the dyno, however I know that will depend on the individual dyno I find.

Stock injectors shouldn't require a change of the HPOP, even at the level I'm attempting to take them to. Fuel system may be upgraded as I get tuning sorted out with the new turbo, I'm going to allow for the pressure drop to tell me it requires attention.

I'm not sure what scoop you are talking about with the '07 passenger up pipe?

For the intake elbow, I'll remain stock until I do the IC. I want to isolate the gains from the intake manifold alone in my feedback, and I don't see the elbow being the hold up here. Again, this may become a part I add to the on-hand list for the dyno pull.

Right now the benchmark is 485RWHP on stock injectors, and a MTW Stage 2 (same compressor that the Hybrid runs). I agree that tuning will need to be worked on though, I feel the aforementioned truck was a little overfueled with the FICM it was running that day (PHP-Herc). I think with this turbo dialed in, as much of a tax on the injectors that it will be, this number is achievable.

The HPOP itself is fine, but '07s still had STC fittings that are leak prone and there are HPO stand pipe and dummy plug updates.

The "scoop" in the up pipe is for the EGR system you said you plan on retaining, so you will want to address that. I heated mine to a nice bright orange with my oxy/acetylene torch and drove a big black impact socket through the pipe to remove the restriction from the scoop. It leaves a slot for exhaust gasses to pass through and does not pop a CEL or any EGR performance codes because the computer still sees positive pressure at the EGR valve. It does improve off idle spool and will reduce the passenger side EGTs a bit by letting the heat move along.

Have you looked at the stock intake elbow? With it off? It's akin to two pipes welded together at a right angle on the small radius, there's an actual edge! You will see an increase in flow into the manifold from upgrading it, there is no way I would spend the money or invest my effort on a ported manifold and keep the stock elbow.

The devil will be in the details to reach your goal. It's going to be the small things that add up to push you that little bit further towards your goal.

As for testing, all you need is something that will log vehicle data and somewhere you can safely accelerate the truck for a dead stop to a set speed repeatedly. Log engine speed, vehicle speed, throttle position and you can do acceleration runs. You'll be able to measure time in milliseconds to go from a dead stop to a set speed - say 75mph - and as long as you always test at the same place, gains or losses will be visible in elapsed time. Same as a drag race, just not at a track.

colo_dually · Aug 24, 2012

The HPO system weaknesses were already addressed when I did studs, I failed to mention that.

As for the Up pipes and Intake elbow I'll take those under advisement, and see what happens. I'd like to make the goal with as much stock components as I can. (For example, later down the road I am looking at a set of Speed Steeds, and new up pipes any way)

Details are everything though on this one.

For testing, the Edge Insight now has a Data Logging capability (it was either that or a AE), so I do intend to get some logging done to compare each stage of this build.

Thanks, to everyone, for their interest in this build