Having some performance issues, data logs attached

neverkickn · Jan 9, 2012

I have a good bit of lag in the file named 60t and I have a hard time getting the charger to come up on boost from any cruising speed without a downshift. Both logs are recorded from a stop all the way up to the od shift with the pedal to the floor.

The injectors are 160's with stock nozzles and the charger is a d66 with a 1.0 non gated turbine housing.

To me it looks like I have an aweful lot of PW and the icp isn't coming in fast enough or high enough.

Any insight on what might be going on would be very much appreciated. I can get any other values need, just let me know.

Arisley · Jan 9, 2012

Raise the shift points.

02BigD · Jan 9, 2012

Are those logs from the same tune?

Second one ICP/duty cycle and RPM look out of wack. 40+ dc for 2100 psi?

On Edit; never mind I see the other is a 140 tune.

neverkickn · Jan 10, 2012

So the hpo and ipr duty cycle look fine?

What about the pw on the 140 log. 5.5 ms sounds like alot. Is that normal? It gets kinda smokey in that tune.

02BigD · Jan 10, 2012

What are the details of the HPOP and injectors? How many miles?

To my mind, the 140 chart reeks of an issue on the high pressure oil side.

What I am used to seeing is a little skewed because I run a Gen3, but at 3000psi, duty cycle is in the 36% range. I don't recall seeing 40+ duty cycle ever.

neverkickn · Jan 10, 2012

I have casserly 160's with less than 10k and a termy modded 17* at around 20k.

I am not getting any oil codes.

smoker00 · Jan 10, 2012

EGT's??

neverkickn · Jan 10, 2012

EGT's can get up there but usually only in 4th or if I am towing in the 140 tune.

2000wa250 · Jan 10, 2012

It seems to me like you have a lag in HPO in the 140 tune. I would expect pressures to rise in accordance with RPM, however in that log it shows that you hit peak RPM a couple of data points before peak HPO....I'll let the experts chime in, but I believe that this would end up with a situation where you are dumping fuel without pressure, causing poor atomization, smoke, and the laggy feeling you are talking about

kampy · Jan 10, 2012

Looks like a bunch of things going on possibly compounding on themselves. It really looks like a HPO issue to begin with, but a 5.5ms pw will cause significant HPO loss if you have a leak like orings or a poppet not sealing tight.

The boost and EBP pressure readings look whacked out also in the 140 tune. Given that the baseline for the sensors is ~ 15.0, look at the lines for rpm between 2821 and 2913. The boost never gets over about 11 psi but the back pressure is up around 37psi, Could the PCM/tuning be freaking out because of those readings? They're much more normal looking in the smaller tune.

Does it run normal if you pull the chip?

neverkickn · Jan 11, 2012

kampy said:
Looks like a bunch of things going on possibly compounding on themselves. It really looks like a HPO issue to begin with, but a 5.5ms pw will cause significant HPO loss if you have a leak like orings or a poppet not sealing tight.

The boost and EBP pressure readings look whacked out also in the 140 tune. Given that the baseline for the sensors is ~ 15.0, look at the lines for rpm between 2821 and 2913. The boost never gets over about 11 psi but the back pressure is up around 37psi, Could the PCM/tuning be freaking out because of those readings? They're much more normal looking in the smaller tune.

Does it run normal if you pull the chip?

I forgot to mention that in the 140 tune I cant read more than 26 MAP. Gauge pressure was around 30psi there but the readout only shows 26. Think it has something to do with how the tuning defeats the defuel.

I haven't tried pulling the chip but I guess I can.

golfer · Jan 11, 2012

kampy said:
Looks like a bunch of things going on possibly compounding on themselves. It really looks like a HPO issue to begin with, but a 5.5ms pw will cause significant HPO loss if you have a leak like orings or a poppet not sealing tight.

requested pulsewidth wouldn't have any bearing on neither an o-ring nor poppet valve issue...and since the injs are only 160cc's...if the injector was 'empty' in 3-3.5ms...no more oil would be used by requesting 5ms or 10ms...once the injector is empty..it's empty.

The boost and EBP pressure readings look whacked out also in the 140 tune. Given that the baseline for the sensors is ~ 15.0, look at the lines for rpm between 2821 and 2913. The boost never gets over about 11 psi but the back pressure is up around 37psi, Could the PCM/tuning be freaking out because of those readings? They're much more normal looking in the smaller tune.

Does it run normal if you pull the chip?

I don't think any determination to boost vs. backpressure can be made since we're viewing "boost" through the MAP sensor...

also, does this truck have a boost fooler/regulator on the map line? if you're seeing 30psi on a mechanical boost gauge that would equate to 45psi on the Manifold (absolute) sensor reading...which isn't out of whack (for a smallish/stock? turbo).

the lack of ICP pressure (2113psi @ full PW) and max IPR % tells the tale...

it's either a weak HPOP or leaking injectors..the (relatively) high 45% IPR duty cycle indicates that the tuning is requesting more pressure...but it can't REACH the desired pressure (due to the above listed potential, pump or inj issues)..ie, the injs are 'using' more oil than the pump can supply.

neverkickn · Jan 12, 2012

golfer said:
requested pulsewidth wouldn't have any bearing on neither an o-ring nor poppet valve issue...and since the injs are only 160cc's...if the injector was 'empty' in 3-3.5ms...no more oil would be used by requesting 5ms or 10ms...once the injector is empty..it's empty.

I don't think any determination to boost vs. backpressure can be made since we're viewing "boost" through the MAP sensor...

also, does this truck have a boost fooler/regulator on the map line? if you're seeing 30psi on a mechanical boost gauge that would equate to 45psi on the Manifold (absolute) sensor reading...which isn't out of whack (for a smallish/stock? turbo).

the lack of ICP pressure (2113psi @ full PW) and max IPR % tells the tale...

it's either a weak HPOP or leaking injectors..the (relatively) high 45% IPR duty cycle indicates that the tuning is requesting more pressure...but it can't REACH the desired pressure (due to the above listed potential, pump or inj issues)..ie, the injs are 'using' more oil than the pump can supply.

Yes, stock charger with a 1.0 non gated turbine housing and a 66/88 compressor wheel.

Thanks for your input on the oil numbers. I have a hand pump that I can use to pressurize heads. I have done this a couple months back and remember that I never could get a rail to hold pressure for any length of time other than
somewhere around 500 lbs. I could get the pressure to ramp up to 3k but I had to pump fast and as soon as I quit it would leak back down almost immediatly. I had the vc's off at the time and also recall oil coming from around the top of the injectors.

Do those pressure test results sound normal or is that most likely the problem?

golfer · Jan 12, 2012

neverkickn said:
Yes, stock charger with a 1.0 non gated turbine housing and a 66/88 compressor wheel.

Thanks for your input on the oil numbers. I have a hand pump that I can use to pressurize heads. I have done this a couple months back and remember that I never could get a rail to hold pressure for any length of time other than
somewhere around 500 lbs. I could get the pressure to ramp up to 3k but I had to pump fast and as soon as I quit it would leak back down almost immediatly. I had the vc's off at the time and also recall oil coming from around the top of the injectors.

Do those pressure test results sound normal or is that most likely the problem?

the above in bold is (probably most of) your issue.

Chvyrkr · Jan 12, 2012

neverkickn said:
I have casserly 160's with less than 10k and a termy modded 17* at around 20k.

I am not getting any oil codes.

Possibly unrelated, but I sure have been noticing alot of possible issues with HPO on trucks with modded 17*'s lately.

neverkickn · Jan 12, 2012

golfer said:
the above in bold is (probably most of) your issue.

I can put new orings on this weekend. Should I see any oil pushing past the top oring? I would tend to doubt an internal oil issue since the injectors have very few miles on them but I guess it is possible.

More likely that I didnt install them right in the first place.

golfer · Jan 12, 2012

neverkickn said:
I can put new orings on this weekend. Should I see any oil pushing past the top oring?

no

I would tend to doubt an internal oil issue since the injectors have very few miles on them but I guess it is possible.

I'd tend to disagree , but I'm sure you'll find something out...

before I wasted a moment actually pulling the injs to o-ring them...I'd RE-pressurize the head with the VCs off and better inspect WHERE the oil is leaking...

if it's coming out around the BORE of the injector (like up out of the inj cup area)...then it's an o-ring...

if it's coming out from anywhere else (remove the aluminum deflectors to see the how much is bypassing from the oil discharge port while pressurized)...or if it looks like it's leaking out "under" the solenoid...then it's an internal issue with the injector(s).

neverkickn · Jan 12, 2012

Ok. I will do that on sat. How much pressure should the rails hold and for how long?

golfer · Jan 12, 2012

neverkickn said:
Ok. I will do that on sat. How much pressure should the rails hold and for how long?

if the poppet valves/seats were addressed properly during the rebuild procedure...you should have no problem holding 2500psi for a looonnng time...maybe a minute to drop a few hundred psi.

the poppet valve has tapered seats (upper seat has to seal when firing, lower seat seals when not firing)...very much like a valve in a cyl head...so some (slow & small volume) leakage is normal...but what you described previously...with the very fast drop isn't normal at all...

and if this was an o-ring issue...I think the o-ring would have failed catastrophically (no start, esp when hot) by now