Hunting idle, rough when warm

JD3020

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"New" engine in and has probably had an hour or 2 of run time, had a few hiccups at first since i had completely drained the fuel and oil rails, but is fine now. I've put maybe 40 miles on, but its spent a lot of time at hi-idle while i was doing a coolant flush.

When it first starts up it runs extremely smooth, very little shake to it, sounds good, and no issues. After maybe 10 seconds or so, the idle begins to hunt. Normal idle is 700, but it'll go from 600 up to 800 when it gets really bad. Once it starts to warm up the idle goes back to normal, but it begins getting rougher and a slight knock. My old engine had a very rough idle, and had low/uneven compression, but this isn't that bad.

The "new" engine is a 97 with 120k miles, bottom end looked about new, I added a Melling LPOP, welded and opened up the pick-up tube, and re-sealed everything. The mechanical fuel pump only has about 1500 miles on it, although i haven't checked fuel pressure yet. I did re-use the same electronics/sensors from my old engine. I've got another cam sensor to throw in as it did throw a CPS code the other day, and i've got a couple used IPR's, as well as a new one somewhere to throw in. It'll pass a buzz and CCT test all day long, ICP and DC% look good, and nothing looks out of the ordinary.

Going down the road the truck runs smooth, no smoke, although it does seem a little down on power, but hard to tell.


So what in the hell is causing this?
 

PatMan

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What are you using to do your buzz test? AE?
If so, I'd suggest a little more data logging while running/driving.

But if it's as 'new' as your stating, very possible you still have some air in the fuel lines causing your stuttering/rough idle. But that's just a guess.
 

webb06

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Possibly the ipr valve. If that engine had been setting for some time I'd swap out the ipr valve. They are known to cause that symptom.
 

TARM

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Have you physically checked the IPR valve yet? Sometimes that lock nut loosens or comes off completely and end up laying in the valley. When either of those happen your idle gets all kinds of choppy etc..

Another thing could the the Oil temp sensor maybe. Just a guess but not likely. When mine had idle issues it was the IPR nut was loose or had come off. The other was a ICP sensor issue even if the numbers look out. Sometimes they just get screwy.

I am very leery of messing with used IPRs unless you know for sure they were running good when they came off. Usually when one stops running right cleaning or not rebuilding or not it never seems to work 100% reliable again. I know others may have had there's run fine. I end up only buying genuine Ford or IH parts for anything electronic on these engines. Way too much time troubleshooting mine and friends 7.3s only to find out it was caused by some china crap part from ebay or auto chain store. The price sucks as its about 3x fair market value but well worth the possible headache and peace of mind IMHO.
 

JD3020

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What are you using to do your buzz test? AE?
If so, I'd suggest a little more data logging while running/driving.

But if it's as 'new' as your stating, very possible you still have some air in the fuel lines causing your stuttering/rough idle. But that's just a guess.

Using my scanguage. I can't think of the numbers right now, but ICP/IPR% are pretty stable at idle. Really wish i had access to AE so i could log them.

Have you physically checked the IPR valve yet? Sometimes that lock nut loosens or comes off completely and end up laying in the valley. When either of those happen your idle gets all kinds of choppy etc..

Another thing could the the Oil temp sensor maybe. Just a guess but not likely. When mine had idle issues it was the IPR nut was loose or had come off. The other was a ICP sensor issue even if the numbers look out. Sometimes they just get screwy.

I am very leery of messing with used IPRs unless you know for sure they were running good when they came off. Usually when one stops running right cleaning or not rebuilding or not it never seems to work 100% reliable again. I know others may have had there's run fine. I end up only buying genuine Ford or IH parts for anything electronic on these engines. Way too much time troubleshooting mine and friends 7.3s only to find out it was caused by some china crap part from ebay or auto chain store. The price sucks as its about 3x fair market value but well worth the possible headache and peace of mind IMHO.

The nut is tight. When i pulled the IPR out i rebuilt it. I bought a brand new Ford IPR a few weeks ago, but i can't find it anywhere. I know i've shipped a pile of parts out, so i'm hoping it didn't end up getting shipped out somehow. And my ICP sensor is only about 2 years old, oil got into my old one and left me on the side of the road one day.

But last night i changed the oil, which it had some cheap Napa crap in it, and i changed it over my Valvoline. Seems to be running better now. Gonna stop at Ford tomorrow and pick up a new CPS to throw in as i had to loan my spare(an old one) to a buddy, and hopefully find that damn IPR.
 

TARM

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Your comment about oil is one I have stated for years. IN these engines oil quality and viscosity can have a dramatic effect on engine performance. Its why I have never and will never touch oils like rotella and the like. I know its hard for people to get but I find that Schaeffer is the best band for the buck in quality oil. Its gone up a bit over the last few years but still far less than Mobile or Amsoil and IMHO better than either. But I do like the Valvoline. Also when the oil gets old it it can be bad. I can always tell if I run a oil too long as the engine just has a different feel to it ( the way it performs).

Maybe its just the oil. Looking at your sig you have done quality upgrades.

That was smart getting the cam gear welded on. I would do that also on any engine I was gonna swap in after first check the lash. Melling pump, 910s properly shimmed etc all good choices IMO. See how it runs for the next day or so. As I said I do not put much confidence in IPRs that are rebuilt. I use to think this was silly years ago. Dave(Swamps) has said this for years and I figured he was being a bit extreme. Not anymore. Wasted time its just not worth it. I fully agree with him now LOL

Hopefully you find that IPR that's not exactly a cheap part to loose.
 

JD3020

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No ****, i got a good deal on it on E-bay, but still a pricey part to lose.

But today i never really noticed a hunting idle at all, until this evening. Swapped in another cam sensor and it sorta hunted a little bit, but i could only hear it, the tach never moved. Didn't last that long either, and it smoothed out. ICP and DC% are also very smooth as well. Guess it was just the ****ty Napa oil in it. Just hard to figure that cheap oil with 3 hours of run-time was acting worse than good oil with over 3500 miles on it.


I'd love to go to all Schaeffers or Amsoil in my truck, but its just too hard me to swing $30+ a gallon for oil on a college budget. Been running the Valvoline 15w-40 for over a year now, and just gonna stick with it.
 

TARM

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Comnpletely understandable on the budget. IN that case go with a high quality dino oil IMO and do a OC every 5K unless you drive the piss out of it then 3K. Mobiles Delvac 15w40 is a good oil with a very good additive package. Actually make the engine quieter than many syns out there. You can find it for $4-5 gal on sale or at least you use to have not looked at it in years since being on schaeffers which I pay $23 for the 9K IIRC a gal because of my bulk order size. SO that is quiet a savings and lets face it very little pay off in the larger scheme of things LOL
 

TARM

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One thing... I would be very leery of a non ford IPR if that is what you got off ebay. Just say'n.....
 

JD3020

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I haven't looked into the Delvac much, although i did see it the other day. If it pops up on sale i may grab a case of it.

And it was a Ford IPR, pretty sure its still in the Ford box with the little rubber sleeve over it, wherever it is. LOL
 

ghohouston

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go drive the **** out of the truck, 40 miles is potentially not enough to work the air out of the h.p.o. system and fuel rails, and idling wont help you clear much air out either. also, i have a bnib ipr ill sell you for $100 IF that is your problem, i sold my 7.3 before i could install it. but honestly, ill bet there is still air in your motor
 

TARM

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That is true. For whatever reason it seems different engines take different amounts of time to clear out the systems.

My engine is so easy to read. When there is still air in the injectors it takes a the engine a few turn overs to start. This gets better and better. But as soon as it cranks over like normal all the air is out.

Usually I do not ever jump hard on my engines when I have made modes. I know a good number of people do jump on them and run them hard right out of the gate. I have time and do not might taking the extra. If for some reason something was wrong IMO dogging it just runs more a chance of doing damage. But I do take them for a good bit of stop and go driving them a bit of a highway drive where rpms are kept in the 2-2.3K rpm range. Without fail it always gets everything purged and running smooth as far as that goes.

For my engine 40 miles is about right as long as it got fully warmed up etc.... Heck it takes that far just to get to town anyways. I end up doing at least 60 miles to there and back so maybe it actually does take it longer come to think of it !?!

My procedure is:

* fill my oil rails up and HPOP res up as well. I crank over a few revs a, refill the HPOP, repeat 3x if it still dropping, but usually filling the rails it only take a couple times.

* Hook it to a battery charger set to 200 amp jump start to not stress the batteries just in case. Then key cycle it a few times. Then start crank cyclings it till it starts.

* Let it idle till the coolant is up to temp.

* Retq all the nuts and bolts. Button everything up for good.

* Restart and take for a drive.

* Put it in the garage and check again for leaks. Shut it down and check after a few hours to see if any leaks have shown up on the floor or valley. If all is dry I call it gtg.
 

njjeep

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He said it had two hours of run time in the first post, plus sounds like he has more time since than. You would think the air has got to be out by now.

To the OP, how's it running now? Did you end up changing out the IPR?
 

ghohouston

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He said it had two hours of run time in the first post, plus sounds like he has more time since than. You would think the air has got to be out by now.

To the OP, how's it running now? Did you end up changing out the IPR?

he said he let it idle for a good bit of that time iirc, which DOES NOT work all the air out of the oil/fuel systems...
 

JD3020

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It idled for a while, and i had driven it some.


The issue has been "fixed" for now though, as soon as i changed the oil the problem went away completely, and hasn't came back yet. Well the idle issue anyways. Still have a mile long list of issues i need to fix, and the list never gets shorter. :blah:
 

TARM

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Well now you know for sure one symptom of when the oil has been run too long
 

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