super duty van rv build up for towing. 25,000lbs

mrp669 · Jan 30, 2016

I just bought a 1997 e450 superduty 32ft rv and plan on towing with it at 25k gross weight. I have added gauges, 02 van turbo, bellowed up pipes, 3 in intakes, 4 inch exhaust, e-fuel and bowl ******, and 120v idm.

1)I am trying to decide between a ww2 or rr to help get my bottom back from the bigger turbo swap. I have read that the WW2 was better than the rr6/6 in the van turbo in the lower rpms spool up but haven't seen anything bout the rr4/4...other than: Per Clay the 4/4 is a smidge quieter and gives a smidge more boost vs 6/6". How much do the wheels weigh? I've seen ww2 is 5.5027 oz or 13% lighter than oem.

2)I don't want to do the 08+ front clip so I am planning an a2w intercooler to combat compressor heat but haven't found a big enough heat exchanger yet that makes me happy, so I probably will end up with 2 in series maybe 3. I would like one to be the size of the radiator but only 1 inch thick, but I think I might be dreaming on that one.

3)I AM swapping my edge ez/banks trans command(both previous owner) for a power hungry hydra as of now...

4)I'm pretty sure I have ab injectors (from my research and ill pull a valve cover soon to confirm). ad's only add 5cc of fuel so thats pointless. I am thinking about swapping to ac's-160/0 or even 160/30. I've also read stock nozzles are better for towing due to better atomization. Are ac's noticeably louder than aa's?

5)This brings me to med/big oil. I want as much down low as possible to get the rigs weight going. Is there such a thing as too much hpop for this combo? I dont see anybody talking about doubles on stock injectors other than loping/wandering idle and ipr duty cycle issues with 2 iprs so I think that is out. Did the overdrive ever get an ok for daily driving? srp1.1 have had some catastrophic failures which leaves terminator my first choice as of now.

6)In the spring I am considering a f-series sd pcm and wiring(mat sensor input) and 4r100 swap when I do a 4x4 conversion.
A)what is the best year/model to get the pcm from?
B)Are there other supply sources besides ujointoffroad.com for the 4x4 brackets etc.?

Is there any positive suggestions or anything missing from my list that will help with getting the weight rolling and keep egts in check?

psduser1 · Jan 30, 2016

Holy *** I'm confused. You bought a van to tow 25k?
If you actually bought a truck, is it 4x4, or 4x2?
I'd just run the e4od, rather than swapping everything to the SD setup. It will work.
Stock oil is fine for anything, towing wise.
Skip the 160/0s, go to a 160/30, or even a 160/80.
Its not hard to swap a SD intercooler into an obs, just takes some attention to detail. Unless you want to drop a bunch of coin into a semi-custom cooler.
If you have the three inch parts on top of the engine, simplicity says go with the 38r. Dropin, simple, and good to 450 hp. If thats not good enough, look at the t4 options from bell turbo, or or any other of the t4 options available.
Php is an excellent source of help, and the hydra appears to be a decent platform to change or experiment with tunes!

rpm-inc · Jan 30, 2016

I thought it was pretty clear. e450 (van) motorhome.

My thoughts are convert to an 08+ front end so you can intercool it.

mrp669 · Jan 31, 2016

Yes it is a van chassis e450 rear wheel drive only and total weight combined with trailer will be 25,000 pounds. I will be converting to 4x4 using brackets and supplies from ujointoffroad.com along with yard salvaged parts. I am not trying to build for horsepower or high rpms as it is a motorhome. I am looking to build as much low rpm torque as possible. I do plan on doing an air to water intercooler with at least 2 heat exchangers this size: http://www.siliconeintakes.com/prod...=1007&osCsid=fea5aeb747807b10d848890b3da218f1

psduser1 · Jan 31, 2016

Got ya. Long day yesterday. Sorry to be short.
I'll stand by my recommendations. I'll add, don't bother changing idms, it won't help you any, at this point.
As far as the front end swap, im not sure about that. Not sure it would be "ncessary" to get an intercooler in there.
What does this thing weigh? How much is going to be towed, and how often? I mean the rv doesn't weigh 25k by itself, does it?
*Just saw your post, mrp*

psduser1 · Jan 31, 2016

Are you planning to use the pump in that kit? Doesn't appear to be rated for coolant temps?
As far as torque, with any decent size injector, you'll be limiting torque low in the rpm range, just to keep the rods inside the block, lol.
Twenty five thousand is not a huge weight, I may or may not routinely exceed that with my pickup/trailers., intercooled of course.
I can't help you on the intercooler part, but rpm-inc has a lot of experience with the e platform, and if he's willing to take the time, I'd definitely talk to him!

bruce · Jan 31, 2016

Here's what i'd do if money were no object. PIS 160/30, s362fmw with a 1.0 housing, the biggest air to air intercooler you can fit up there, e-fuel with regulated return, 910 valve springs and just keep the spun up to keep egt down

mrp669 · Jan 31, 2016

I already have a 20 gallon meziere pump.

Already installed e-fuel with 2 bosch pumps and aeromotive a1000 regulator

I thought the pmr rods were what limited the sd low end torque...

Havent even contemplated valve springs- whats the benefit? just better at dealing with valve float at extreme exhaust back pressures?

bruce · Jan 31, 2016

You shouldn't have pmr unless someone stuffed a late model engine in there

RoadWarrior · Jan 31, 2016

mrp669 said:
Havent even contemplated valve springs- whats the benefit? just better at dealing with valve float at extreme exhaust back pressures?

Factory springs fatigue easily and are prone to cracking especially at high mileage. Comp 910 are not only for reliability but for the added boost.

psduser1 · Jan 31, 2016

mrp669 said:
I already have a 20 gallon meziere pump.

Already installed e-fuel with 2 bosch pumps and aeromotive a1000 regulator

I thought the pmr rods were what limited the sd low end torque...

Havent even contemplated valve springs- whats the benefit? just better at dealing with valve float at extreme exhaust back pressures?

That is a true statement about pmrs, which you should not have in a 97, as per bruce.
Having said that, even with forged rods, I'd say an average lower torque number will only extend service life. I've only seen difference of about 3-400 lbs-ft recommended difference between pmrs and forged rods, per my conversations with different tuners. Thats not as much as it may seem on this platform.
Also, as bruce mentioned, rpms are your friend as the weight goes up. Which leads to a Stout er valvetrain

bruce said:
You shouldn't have pmr unless someone stuffed a late model engine in there

mrp669 · Feb 3, 2016

I got the rr2-4/4 wheel today and it weighs 3.526 ounces or 101.06 grams. That's almost 2 ounces lighter than the ww2-5/5 which I've seen weighs 5.5027 ounces. That seems a lot to me since they are both billet!

I am back to considering BO and ad's vs t500 and 160/30's.
I have 2 quotes from joey in 2007"What I noticed in his original post, is that he is looking for towing power, which is torque. That's one of the biggest advantages of Big Oil(anybodys system)." IIRC this was about BO and ad's vs 17* and ac's for towing.
and the second quote is "3000 psi is not enough pressure for any injector currently on the market"
and another unknown quote "more hpop volume results in better throttle response, better atomization, and if you can control your right foot, better fuel mileage."
This makes sense to me. BO helps increase the efficiency of the burn by increasing available high pressure oil across the rpm range, especially lower rpms where I feel it would benefit me more. The increased pressures result in better fuel injection pressures resulting in better fuel atomization resulting in a better burn and more towing power unleashed. where my understanding is 160's need 30% nozzles to get the fuel out in the same amount of time-this would lead to less fuel atomization and less fuel burn resulting in smoke and worse mpg's for the same amount of towing power. What I mean by towing power is useable power climbing an extended steep grade at 25,000 pounds.

psduser1 · Feb 3, 2016

I think a post from 2007 may not be as accurate today. Tuning has improved substantially, and there may be better options available.
I would never even consider going back to ad s for a tow rig. Ever.
ANY relatively healthy 17* or "bigger" pump will be more than adequate for a model injector- with some decent tunes.
I'll put my little setup up against any oil system and ad s, or ac s, for that matter. But we'll have to scale 30k or better, lol.
Not bragging, just the way it is. Injectors can be better today than ever, and tuning is miles ahead.
I'll say again, as well, if you're pulling 6% for three miles, at 1500 rpm, you're shooting yourself in the foot.

mrp669 · Nov 24, 2016

Anybody have an email for joey at terminator engineering?

I have had alot of downtime due to a back injury and surgery and I am just now getting back to this project. A few updates for anybody interested:

WVO-Already installed efuel, fuel bowl ******, 30 and 2 mic spin-on filters, regulated return, tank selector valve, temp and psi gauges. I have a van 35g midship tank to install for diesel. I have a wvodesigns pump, hot fox, 3 30plate fphe's, 2 racor 777r heated filters(darth vaders), 25ft hose in hose, all for the rear stock 55g plastic tank. I plan on being able to run svo below 0*f ambient, but still need to research a tank heater option to assist the hotfox.

Engine-I am planning on going with a t500 and 160/30 singleshot injectors.

Turbo- I have the riff raff 4/4 wheel to install in the 02 van turbo.

Tunes-I haven't decided on a tuner yet.

Intercooler- I have all a2w ic parts to install. This huge box lives in constant boost on the highways....12/13 psi to hold 75mph! I feel I will need more of a monster heat exchanger(or multiple hx's) than anyone has used on a standard van because I'm always in boost and making heat.

Trans-I am using the 4r100 over the e4od for the better shift strategies.

Wiring/ecm-I'm considering just going with a van ecm for a 4r100 trans...or I already have the complete wiring harness(with the MAT/IAT2 sensor!, ecm, and instrument cluster etc) from my 4wd donor truck.

4x4- I picked up an 02 f550 7.3 drw for the 4wd conversion. axles are 4.88 and have 19.5 rims mounted to clear the massive brakes. Transfer case is mechanical.

Solar power-I purchased 4 fullriver 4d agm batteries. I am switching to a 24v house batt bank for better high load inverter efficiency(i.e. a/c and electric "cheapheat"). I am going to toss the 3 panels(500w@17v) I currently have and start over. I plan to cover every inch of space I can on the roof with 30-50v panels in parallel and a mppt charge controller. I haven't decided on which brand 24v inverter to go with yet.

Swaan · Nov 24, 2016

bruce said:
Here's what i'd do if money were no object. PIS 160/30, s362fmw with a 1.0 housing, the biggest air to air intercooler you can fit up there, e-fuel with regulated return, 910 valve springs and just keep the spun up to keep egt down

This^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
To a tee!!!

But you wont have to keep it spun up high . Should pull all day long at 2000 rpm with no egt issues at all. That turbo will be real happy at that rpm. No problem

Should have a **** ton low end torque.

TARM · Nov 25, 2016

I would be more worried about the trans than any singular part of this. The SD trans go out just from a chip upgrade in a otherwise totally stock setup.

I would go with

* 160/30 injectors

* 910CC VS These are needed with the use on stock spring they are likley barely holding pressure in the 60s psi range.

* change the push rods while your in there.

* whatever turbo is the best these days with high durability.

* built 4r100 and TC

*intercooler

whatever you can do space wise or the super easy answer with a bit more regular maintenance would be water injection. Honestly water injection is so easy to setup space wise. Really how bad is it to fill a water jug say once a week. After all you will have plenty of space for a large one in a RV. But either way it would be very helpful for durability to have cooling of some sort.

*GHA Matt's tuning

Then there are smaller supporting things:

Redo the fuel system. Change out all the lines with JIC PL hose or bend your own metal lines. On the tank end you can use compression to JIC male fitting. Install a spin on water sep pre-fuel pump and a low micron HP primary filter post pump. Get rid of the bowl and install Y into rear and exit to the reg front to tank return.

Install a new oil cooler as the one is likley at least partially clogged and cooling is critical on the Van setups.

Having not mess with van personally not sure if the 6.0 trans coolers fit but it they do it would be mandatory upgrade IMO.

Being a RV what rear axle does it have? If you going to be swapping things the newer 110s out of the 05+ 550s would be a improvement especially with towing on grades and the extra power. Up front not sure how different the axle setups are but you could upgrade to the super 60 from a 05+ 550 yet still use the 350 suspension and that would get you much larger brakes. Again not sure what changes they did for RV setups so you would have to check.