7.3 DD/ Do Everything Build ?'s

[Strictly Diesel]

We've done several sets of small hybrids (200/30%) and had very happy customers. They work great with the 38R and don't require a larger or modified HPOP.

http://www.strictlydiesel.com/p-3413-425hp-street-tow-package.aspx

I don't agree with recommending 238cc or larger injectors to someone with PMRs, particularly someone concerned with "reliability".

That said, we have done more 175cc single shots (mostly with stock nozzles) than any other modified injector...and unless they decided they want more power, every last customer with those has been extremely happy. With a stock nozzle, they run about 375hp, but we can put an upgraded nozzle on them if desired. These also work great with the 38R.

I'm getting ready to drop my daily driver from 200/200% down to 175/30% because I personally think you get better drivability and better "manners" (idle quality, tip-in smoke, economy, etc) from a smaller injector (particularly a smaller nozzle). The 200s make great power and have been a lot of fun, but there are just some quirks with the larger nozzles that I don't care for (mostly because I'm just so far beyond "Picky Bastard"). I've got a truck with big dumb injectors to go fast in...and at my age I just want my DD to run and idle smooooooth like stock...with a bit more power...and the hybrids with 200% nozzles aren't there.

Typical of the internet...there are a TON of opinions on the subject. The short answer is that the farther you go away from stock power level, the farther you go away from "reliable"...no matter what the internet says. There is most certainly a middle ground "happy medium" area where little has been sacrificed for better power. I personally consider anything larger than a 200cc hybrid with a mild nozzle to be outside of that middle ground.

For the record, when I talk about "reliability", I'm not worried about the injectors or turbo "breaking" or "failing", I'm talking more about an overall "big picture" in terms of what can go wrong as you increase power more and more. Things like transmission breakage, base engine failure (rod breakage, piston cracking), "race" fuel pump failure (that big pump you got to run your big injectors)...anything that can leave you stranded on the side of the road.

 

[Derek@Vision Diesel]

We've done several sets of small hybrids (200/30%) and had very happy customers. They work great with the 38R and don't require a larger or modified HPOP.

http://www.strictlydiesel.com/p-3413-425hp-street-tow-package.aspx

I don't agree with recommending 238cc or larger injectors to someone with PMRs, particularly someone concerned with "reliability".

That said, we have done more 175cc single shots (mostly with stock nozzles) than any other modified injector...and unless they decided they want more power, every last customer with those has been extremely happy. With a stock nozzle, they run about 375hp, but we can put an upgraded nozzle on them if desired. These also work great with the 38R.

I'm getting ready to drop my daily driver from 200/200% down to 175/30% because I personally think you get better drivability and better "manners" (idle quality, tip-in smoke, economy, etc) from a smaller injector (particularly a smaller nozzle). The 200s make great power and have been a lot of fun, but there are just some quirks with the larger nozzles that I don't care for (mostly because I'm just so far beyond "Picky Bastard"). I've got a truck with big dumb injectors to go fast in...and at my age I just want my DD to run and idle smooooooth like stock...with a bit more power...and the hybrids with 200% nozzles aren't there.

Typical of the internet...there are a TON of opinions on the subject. The short answer is that the farther you go away from stock power level, the farther you go away from "reliable"...no matter what the internet says. There is most certainly a middle ground "happy medium" area where little has been sacrificed for better power. I personally consider anything larger than a 200cc hybrid with a mild nozzle to be outside of that middle ground.

For the record, when I talk about "reliability", I'm not worried about the injectors or turbo "breaking" or "failing", I'm talking more about an overall "big picture" in terms of what can go wrong as you increase power more and more. Things like transmission breakage, base engine failure (rod breakage, piston cracking), "race" fuel pump failure (that big pump you got to run your big injectors)...anything that can leave you stranded on the side of the road.

Well said! It really does come down to tuning! OP wont go wrong with either hybrid...

 

[TyCorr]

@Dennis- explain the quirks. This is.a common complaint yet nobody ever gives them in full detail which would be helpful. Im eyeballing those very injectors right now, the 200/200. I had 175/80s last and put my stock injectors back in this spring to go bigger after selling the 175s. Now im thinking I should.have kept them and maximized them first.

Btw, im still enamored of my hpop gear.cover and ebp sensor relocation and tube! Good stuff!

 

[TyCorr]

Bump...hoping dennis will see my last post....

 

[Aaron S]

Im with TyCorr. I would like a better or more explanations and examples of the bad behaviors of the 200% nozzles.

My main interest in the larger nozzles is for the lower egts at increased hp levels that Curtis talks about.

If 200% nozzles cant have stock like idle manners, then I wonder if a nozzle size could be made just enough below a 200% nozzle to achieve the stock like idle?

 

[ghohouston]

Im with TyCorr. I would like a better or more explanations and examples of the bad behaviors of the 200% nozzles.

My main interest in the larger nozzles is for the lower egts at increased hp levels that Curtis talks about.

If 200% nozzles cant have stock like idle manners, then I wonder if a nozzle size could be made just enough below a 200% nozzle to achieve the stock like idle?

With gearhead tuning, my truck idled normally with 100 percent nozzles...

 

[Derek@Vision Diesel]

Im with TyCorr. I would like a better or more explanations and examples of the bad behaviors of the 200% nozzles.

My main interest in the larger nozzles is for the lower egts at increased hp levels that Curtis talks about.

If 200% nozzles cant have stock like idle manners, then I wonder if a nozzle size could be made just enough below a 200% nozzle to achieve the stock like idle?

200% can idle like stock, no question there. The hardest part is making them do so via emailed tunes.

 

[TyCorr]

I really dont give a bakers ***k about stock idle. It sounds like.shti in anything but nvk 4 or 5 anyway.

Ive heard better sounding idles out of single shots in a superduty. My 175s sounded way better. These stupid.***kin ad's sound like there are tiny combustions going on at.any.given random moment. That pilot shot is supposed to quiet the main injection but all it accomplishes is making the truck.sound.like somebody chewing ice. A fuel system helps but still. I mean if you are dead set on 200% nozzles but the truck.smokes at idle when cold are you going to change your mind? I mean you could just ignore it or stop.idling the truck.

I wanted to hear HOOOOW the 200s are misbehaving, specifically, that would get a guy to.ditch them.for some ac's with 30% nozzles. I mean the 80% nozzles on the 175 were pretty ***kin rad. I wish I could try them with my new.fuel system and srp1.1. Oh and billet 38r.

 

[smokinstroker92]

With gearhead tunes my truck idles perfect and smoke is relatively minimal but some other tunes I have don't idle perfect but have better street manners

Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk 2

 

[TyCorr]

How noticeable is any of that is what Im getting at? Do you ***kin hate the truck? Do you long for.stock injectors? I just am not seeing it partly because of.ignorance.

 

[DocBar]

We've done several sets of small hybrids (200/30%) and had very happy customers. They work great with the 38R and don't require a larger or modified HPOP.

http://www.strictlydiesel.com/p-3413-425hp-street-tow-package.aspx

I don't agree with recommending 238cc or larger injectors to someone with PMRs, particularly someone concerned with "reliability".

That said, we have done more 175cc single shots (mostly with stock nozzles) than any other modified injector...and unless they decided they want more power, every last customer with those has been extremely happy. With a stock nozzle, they run about 375hp, but we can put an upgraded nozzle on them if desired. These also work great with the 38R.

I'm getting ready to drop my daily driver from 200/200% down to 175/30% because I personally think you get better drivability and better "manners" (idle quality, tip-in smoke, economy, etc) from a smaller injector (particularly a smaller nozzle). The 200s make great power and have been a lot of fun, but there are just some quirks with the larger nozzles that I don't care for (mostly because I'm just so far beyond "Picky Bastard"). I've got a truck with big dumb injectors to go fast in...and at my age I just want my DD to run and idle smooooooth like stock...with a bit more power...and the hybrids with 200% nozzles aren't there.

Typical of the internet...there are a TON of opinions on the subject. The short answer is that the farther you go away from stock power level, the farther you go away from "reliable"...no matter what the internet says. There is most certainly a middle ground "happy medium" area where little has been sacrificed for better power. I personally consider anything larger than a 200cc hybrid with a mild nozzle to be outside of that middle ground.

For the record, when I talk about "reliability", I'm not worried about the injectors or turbo "breaking" or "failing", I'm talking more about an overall "big picture" in terms of what can go wrong as you increase power more and more. Things like transmission breakage, base engine failure (rod breakage, piston cracking), "race" fuel pump failure (that big pump you got to run your big injectors)...anything that can leave you stranded on the side of the road.

Maybe you should try different tuning. imp:

 

[ghohouston]

How noticeable is any of that is what Im getting at? Do you ***kin hate the truck? Do you long for.stock injectors? I just am not seeing it partly because of.ignorance.

Ty, fwiw, a buddy has pis 300/200's on gearhead tunes, it does not smoke at idle, and idles fine, until two injectors went south. I dont think anyone has ever longed for stock injectors. I for one loved the sound difference when I went to single shots. It still didnt sound like an obs though (damn pilot injection). The one truck I can say sounded like it would annoy me at idle is marty's platinum with 400/400's. Theres a youtube vid of it somewhere, but sounds crazy.

 

[ghohouston]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXtK2XmFj38&feature=youtube_gdata_player

This vid. Not actually positive those are the injectors it had, but I know they were big

 

[CSIPSD]

Huh? There is no pilot injection on a 7.3...

 

[dentexpowerstroke]

I really dont give a bakers ***k about stock idle. It sounds like.shti in anything but nvk 4 or 5 anyway.

Ive heard better sounding idles out of single shots in a superduty. My 175s sounded way better. These stupid.***kin ad's sound like there are tiny combustions going on at.any.given random moment. That pilot shot is supposed to quiet the main injection but all it accomplishes is making the truck.sound.like somebody chewing ice. A fuel system helps but still. I mean if you are dead set on 200% nozzles but the truck.smokes at idle when cold are you going to change your mind? I mean you could just ignore it or stop.idling the truck.

I wanted to hear HOOOOW the 200s are misbehaving, specifically, that would get a guy to.ditch them.for some ac's with 30% nozzles. I mean the 80% nozzles on the 175 were pretty ***kin rad. I wish I could try them with my new.fuel system and srp1.1. Oh and billet 38r.

half of your posts make no sense and almost every post you sound like you are just an IDE... have you ever actually had a high performance 7.3? You talk like you have extensive knowledge of them but you spew stuff out of no where. I haven't ever seen my 300/200 smoke at idle even when its cold and they are probably the best sounding idle. By the way try actually looking at what you type, I fat finger stuff and use incorrect grammar but I have to read your posts 4-5 times to figure out what you're trying to say.

 

[Jason]

I believe Marty had it on a tune that sounded like that...lope or drag 3b lol

 

[TyCorr]

half of your posts make no sense and almost every post you sound like you are just an IDE... have you ever actually had a high performance 7.3? You talk like you have extensive knowledge of them but you spew stuff out of no where. I haven't ever seen my 300/200 smoke at idle even when its cold and they are probably the best sounding idle. By the way try actually looking at what you type, I fat finger stuff and use incorrect grammar but I have to read your posts 4-5 times to figure out what you're trying to say.

Read the thread. Im commenting on other posts. I didnt make any new claims nor did I offer any information. Im asking what dennis doesnt like about 200% nozzles. Someone brought up idle quality and I said I didnt care about idle quality.

Sorry about my "grammar". I dont see anything wrong with my grammar just a few extra periods in some posts. You really wound that tight? I thought you came here because people on psn were to argumentative? Hi pot, meet kettle.

Anyway, if you'd like to add somethings you dont like about your nozzle selection that would be swell. Otherwise, dont post if you dont like the thread. Pretty simple.

 

[ghohouston]

Huh? There is no pilot injection on a 7.3...

Well arent I the dummy. Idk, guess im Wrong, I always thought they added pilot injection on super duty 7.3's, and that was what quieted the idle down and made it sound so different. Because every super duty ive ever heard with single shots has never sounded like an obs idling. Guess you learn something everyday.

 

[JD3020]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXtK2XmFj38&feature=youtube_gdata_player

This vid. Not actually positive those are the injectors it had, but I know they were big

Thats how my truck idles after a hard run, like pulling a sled. Gets extremely choppy. I think it sounds pretty cool. :rockon:

 

[Strictly Diesel]

Actually, my idle quality is great. I get an occasional VERY SLIGHT idle roll from time to time that I've never tried to remedy because it doesn't happen often enough, otherwise it starts up and idles smooth.

I've spent a lot of time trying to adjust out as much tip-in smoke as possible. Between ICP changes (less aggressive) and low boost fueling changes, it's pretty good...but it's down on power until the boost comes up.

I also spent a bunch of time working on peak EGT control. There is a hill I use by my house for testing. The files I started with ran hot...I had to lift about halfway up the hill. I can hold WOT in my current tune all the way up, well over 100mph, making about 35psi of boost...with the EGTs basically stopping at about 1250-1300°F. This is UNLOADED.

Towing is a different story. Towed the race truck to Ennis earlier this year and there were a few grades on that drive where I had to watch EGTs some...and they were not all that steep...just long. This was the exact same program as above...I have only ever worked on one program in this truck. Temp issue was pretty easy to control, and the power to pull was always there, just had to watch and control temps with my right foot.

What I have learned from this process is that there are a number of ways to skin this cat. I'm sure there are several that every good tuner would say are totally wrong...and others that different tuners would debate. I have attempted to be very conservative in my efforts, my goal was to have one program I could drive every day, make good power and tow with. It's close, and if I had an experienced tuner riding with me I could probably get some of the bugs worked out and be mostly happy with hit. It runs good enough that I surprised a kid in a WRX a few weeks ago...I'm pretty sure he had more in it and could have pulled away...but I'm also sure he did not expect me to hang as close as I did for as long as I did...up to the speed that we reached (not that I condone such behavior).

My biggest frustration through this entire process has been fuel economy. It's a heavy 4x4 dually with heavy 19.5" tires...so I never expected anything stellar. What I didn't expect is to make all of the adjustments I did to reduce smoke (tip in and other), reduce EGTs (reduce fuel either thru ICP or PW changes), etc...and never see ANY improvement in economy. This is a daily driver, my ONE WAY commute is 24 miles of 90% open freeway (very little "rush hour" if any). The best the truck will deliver, running on the freeway, driving conservatively, is about 13mpg. It got about 12-13 with the smokey hot tunes too. I can't for the life of me figure out why cutting out all of the fuel that I did, to the point that the difference in smoke output is very noticeable, didn't improve this more. Yes...I know that some are thinking "who cares about MPG in a big heavy diesel with big injectors"...I get a TON of MPG questions from customers and it was one of my goals with my experimenting with these injectors.

Another issue that drives me nuts is what I can best describe as "injector instability". They don't really fire consistently below about 1.2ms of PW. If the driving conditions are such that the PW drops below that point (light throttle flat ground cruise), which isn't hard with this much nozzle, you can hear them fire then not fire then fire then not fire. This doesn't bother me in my race truck, but it drives me nuts in my DD. There might be a bit more improvement to be made in my tunes with regard to this...but with that much nozzle I'm pretty sure it's "just the way it is". This is not a problem or hurting anything, and others may not care about "quirks" like this...I'm getting pickier in my old age and it bothers me.

My reasoning for going to smaller injectors and smaller nozzles is simple, I don't need to use what I've got in the truck. Despite all of the talk about being able to "de-tune" big injectors to run like small injectors, I personally don't believe this to be 100% accurate. My truck runs great, but with my programming detuned to what I'm guessing is in the 375hp range, I don't think the truck is running "ideally". I personally think it will make roughly the same power, with better fuel atomization, using a 7:1 A-Code injector and smaller nozzles. I think this will deliver more stable injector operation in the "light throttle flat ground cruise" areas that bother me, I think it will be even less smokey, I think that MPG will improve. Overall, I think this will be a better fit for a truck that was never intended to make "big power".

Right or wrong...that's my reasoning. Some more experienced tuners may say "I could fix the 200/200% to run how you want"...maybe so...but considering all of the input I've gotten from people more experienced than myself, and all that I have tried, I don't see them getting it much better than I have it without sitting in the truck and live tuning it and I just don't care to go that way. I'm taking the easy road because I've played with it long enough and I just don't care to play with it anymore. I've got other things that need my attention...my DD just needs to run and drive and be "done".