Adrenaline vs big oil(stealth) hpop

[smokedout250]

The ad is a great pump! Terminator also makes a good pump as well. They all make a pump that fits in the stock hpop housing. They give you extra of big oil ( to an extent) but allows you to run a smaller pump and a cheaper price. They will not do what big oil can but they are still better than nothing. Noe I'm not saying one is better than the other, but I do know the new spr1 does
Come with a lifetime warranty.


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[TARM]

For those that may want to defend their fav hpop manf or the one they are running: This is not about quality of the pumps. They are all good pumps. In fact every HPOP offered from Swamps Gen3, BTS duals, DS Adrenaline, terminators, The various Stealths are all high quality pumps. But you can have the highest quailty pump in the world and if it does not flow what you need or with hopefully a bit in reserve then its not getting the job done. The pump you need is the one that when your tune calls for 3000 PSI at WOT where you have the maximum pw of fuel being injected it can hold that oil pressure there for as long as you hold the throttle there. End of story.

Different pumps for different needs and as the needs go up so usually does the cost of the pump that can meet those needs. At the bottom of the heap in flow is the stock 15 degree, then the 17 degree, next the slightly modded pumps like Terminator offers, Then you have T500 and Adrenaline In no particular order there and for good reason), next is the Stealth Stage I and SRP1, After that you have basically all the duals and the larger Stealths. I WILL NOT put these in any order as it will without a doubt get some immature person all butt hurt and then all the BS and drama that flows: Terminator duals, BTS Duals, Swamps Gen 3, Stealth Stage II and III, Old Stealth Duals

Adrenaline size pumps seem to hold pressure for Stock split shots,stage II, and 100% hybrids. Stealth SRP1 work for all the previous and also for 200% Hybrids and is also on a set of fast 400% but I have not personally seen log numbers for it but heard its doing fine. Then lastly all the various duals and stage II and III stealths support the big boys large nozzle B-codes, 400% and up nozzled hybrids that are currently being fielded etc..

The one thing going to a larger pump setup can also get you even if a smaller one may hold your max ICP is faster ramp up to those pressures. This is usually seen in throttle response.

That is as best I can work out the order and ranking for flow rates and capacities of various pumps

 

[genie144]

No offense tarm... The old dual stealth setup and the lack of support from Gary left a sh it ton of room for improvement. Until the 'new' srp1 comes out with a lifetime warranty AND doesn't start grenading again - anyone who recommends it either doesn't know of the problems (grenading) or is a sheep...

Sam

 

[Derek@Vision Diesel]

T500 (terminator), Adrenaline, SRP1, stock 17*.....all those pumps will run your stage 2 injectors...

Do yourself a favor and talk to a couple other people, like the builders of the pumps. You will learn a lot. My personal opinion is the adrenaline is way over priced

 

[V-Ref]

Tarms is great post above...I'd bookmark it, if I was "new" to the 7.3 and looking to make some power and confused about which direction to take with my HPOP.

IMHO-The HPOP performance benchmark discussion starts and ends with nozzle size vs ICP/IPR Duty Cycle with a given tune. That is the "1/4 mile ET/trap time" for the 7.3 HPOP.

The rest of the talking point like oil aeration, oil shear, footprint of two pumps vs one, costs, post purchase support....usually just spiral into a big royal :flush:

Mechanical crap breaks....plain and simple. If you need stock reliability, suggest you run a stock truck.

 

[V-Ref]

Tarm

I can post another P7100 pic if that would cheer you up. oke:

 

[Curtis@Vision Diesel]

T500!!!

 

[V-Ref]

Curious...not baiting or HPOP war driving...or whatever....

Who has some nozzle vs ICP/Duty cycle numbers on the T500?

I've searched, asked...no joy.

Thanks in advance.

 

[TARM]

Thanks V-ref.

I went back and forth on whether to post this or not but felt since there is nothing out there to help people that is in on post or even one thread it was worth it. Went out of my way of making sure it was as fully unbiased as possible even leaving info I know out to prevent the typical panty wadge. Just a simple list. .

 

[TARM]

Curious...not baiting or HPOP war driving...or whatever....

Who has some nozzle vs ICP/Duty cycle numbers on the T500?

I've searched, asked...no joy.

Thanks in advance.

I think one guy that got one had listed some max ICP numbers with % so he likely has a full log file from idle up. It was a thread over on PSN

 

[Derek@Vision Diesel]

Curious...not baiting or HPOP war driving...or whatever....

Who has some nozzle vs ICP/Duty cycle numbers on the T500?

I've searched, asked...no joy.

Thanks in advance.

I have some info on the modded 17*. Does not flow as much as the T500, and is not nearly as reliable. So not really what you needed, but its something.
43% at 3000psi with 200% nozzles.
Good tuning is the key there though.

I should have put the t500 in my truck before i went twins, fairly certain DC would have been in the high 30s at 3000psi. I know lots of people with that pump and 100% nozzles but no one else running it with 200%

 

[genie144]

I think tarms post is great... But recommending a pump the was pulled from the market due to repeated failures is not good advice. If the pump comes back out and doesn't have the same catastrophic (seized on the side of the road) failures, then I wouldn't object to the advice. For me, I think recommending any of the others (including a 'new' 17 degree pump) is good advice.

Sam

 

[V-Ref]

I have some info on the modded 17*. Does not flow as much as the T500, and is not nearly as reliable. So not really what you needed, but its something.
43% at 3000psi with 200% nozzles.
Good tuning is the key there though.

I should have put the t500 in my truck before i went twins, fairly certain DC would have been in the high 30s at 3000psi. I know lots of people with that pump and 100% nozzles but no one else running it with 200%

That's impressive. In the hottest tuning from tuners like Swamps, Tyrant, Gearhead, Beans, etc...that's what numbers the SRP1 did for me too. 43% DC/3000 ICP with some 350/200 and 400/200 hybrids and all the fast fuel skunk works mods. To end this, I'd volunteer my time to datalog DC/ICP back to back on a T500 vs whatever if I didn't start my all expenses middle east vacation soon.

The Billet stage 2, knocked all the DC%s by 10-15% accross the board in all tunes from the SRP1.

genie144-my experience with the SRP1 was 18K trouble free miles accross a 80 deg temperature span with three different set of injectors. When I sold the pump, I called the builder, and asked him to give it a once over before it moved on to the new owner. Updates/upgrades done for free. This left me with the impression of a very high quality product backed by a very profession gentleman. I've interacted with Terminator, and found the response to be quick and informative. I have no doubt he supports his pumps the same way...just as Bob would the Adrenaline.

The reason Tarm is recommending the SRP1 is because it's the only single HPOP for $700 that can support the 200% nozzle without question. If there's another one out there.....somebody please post a 600 hp dyno graph with some ICP/DC% numbers please, and include the link on how to buy it.

Thanks.

 

[Garbage_Mechanic]

Pressure ramp up time?

Very nice to see a HPOP discussion that hasn't gone insane! Several people have posted in here that I have learned to listen to. One thing that was touched on by TARM I'd like to hear about:

"The one thing going to a larger pump setup can also get you even if a smaller one may hold your max ICP is faster ramp up to those pressures. This is usually seen in throttle response"

I have a question on this in my mind. Since pressure ramp up time is critical to quick performance, how much extra capacity is good just to be able to get up to pressure faster? That is capacity above what is needed to keep up pressure on the top end. Especially for a manual trans where it happens multiple times per acceleration event?

 

[genie144]

genie144-my experience with the SRP1 was 18K trouble free miles accross a 80 deg temperature span with three different set of injectors. When I sold the pump, I called the builder, and asked him to give it a once over before it moved on to the new owner. Updates/upgrades done for free. This left me with the impression of a very high quality product backed by a very profession gentleman. I've interacted with Terminator, and found the response to be quick and informative. I have no doubt he supports his pumps the same way...just as Bob would the Adrenaline.

The reason Tarm is recommending the SRP1 is because it's the only single HPOP for $700 that can support the 200% nozzle without question. If there's another one out there.....somebody please post a 600 hp dyno graph with some ICP/DC% numbers please, and include the link on how to buy it.

Thanks.

Fair enough... But you can't buy an srp1 for $700 because enough people had enough serious failures that the MFG pulled it from the market (right thing to do and bumps Gary up a notch).

Thank you for your service and safe travels.

Sam

 

[HaysKSFirefighter]

Personally I would wait for the new SRP1 to come out and see how it does, if Gary got all the parts fixed up, its the pump I would run...they perform great for stock rigs and will flow more then enough for stage 2s

 

[Derek@Vision Diesel]

That's impressive. In the hottest tuning from tuners like Swamps, Tyrant, Gearhead, Beans, etc...that's what numbers the SRP1 did for me too. 43% DC/3000 ICP with some 350/200 and 400/200 hybrids and all the fast fuel skunk works mods. To end this, I'd volunteer my time to datalog DC/ICP back to back on a T500 vs whatever if I didn't start my all expenses middle east vacation soon.

The Billet stage 2, knocked all the DC%s by 10-15% accross the board in all tunes from the SRP1.

genie144-my experience with the SRP1 was 18K trouble free miles accross a 80 deg temperature span with three different set of injectors. When I sold the pump, I called the builder, and asked him to give it a once over before it moved on to the new owner. Updates/upgrades done for free. This left me with the impression of a very high quality product backed by a very profession gentleman. I've interacted with Terminator, and found the response to be quick and informative. I have no doubt he supports his pumps the same way...just as Bob would the Adrenaline.

The reason Tarm is recommending the SRP1 is because it's the only single HPOP for $700 that can support the 200% nozzle without question. If there's another one out there.....somebody please post a 600 hp dyno graph with some ICP/DC% numbers please, and include the link on how to buy it.

Thanks.

Im not going to say those were hot tunes, i am not positive what was demanded. I am guessing they were tuned to work around the 17*. I would not suggest that setup with 200% nozzles, at least as a permanent setup.

I should get a T500 just to do what Vref mentioned. I would like to have some numbers from it and compare. Maybe ill do that here soon

 

[Arisley]

My adrenaline has about 60K on it now. Still holds over 3000 at WOT for as long as I keep it there. That is with pure hybrids with what I believe to be 200% nozzles.

Like Tarm said. It depends a lot on injectors as to what kind of oil you need.

 

[Tom S]

Very nice to see a HPOP discussion that hasn't gone insane! Several people have posted in here that I have learned to listen to. One thing that was touched on by TARM I'd like to hear about:

"The one thing going to a larger pump setup can also get you even if a smaller one may hold your max ICP is faster ramp up to those pressures. This is usually seen in throttle response"

I have a question on this in my mind. Since pressure ramp up time is critical to quick performance, how much extra capacity is good just to be able to get up to pressure faster? That is capacity above what is needed to keep up pressure on the top end. Especially for a manual trans where it happens multiple times per acceleration event?

I definately agree that how quickly the pressure ramps up is very important as well esp. for driveability. I like that post above of Tarms as well. For me if I were putting a pump in my truck I expect 100k mile reliability to be at least 98% reality.

 

[V-Ref]

I definately agree that how quickly the pressure ramps up is very important as well esp. for driveability. I like that post above of Tarms as well.

Tom/Tarm

At WOT....If a "big pump" data logged 3000 psi and 35% duty cycle, and a small pump data logged 3000 psi at 35% duty cycle....wouldn't the ramp rate have to be the same on a mechanically driven pump?

I guess I agree conditionally with what your saying...when I look at the AE data logs of the SRP1 vs the Stage 2...the ramp rate is much faster with the stage 2 pump...but this is also manifested in 10-15% less duty cycles for a given PW/ICP at higher rpms too...

So that's why I think it all comes down to max ICP/DC for a given tune is the final be all end all benchmark for our HPOPs.

Hope that makes sense. And if I missed the boat...send another one please :blitzed: