B-Codes vs. Hypermax 2.5's

Strokersace · Mar 18, 2012

Have some questions concerning these 2 injectors ONLY for comparison. No hybrid talk. Just trying to find out the advantages/disadvantages between my current injectors and b-codes:

*What rwhp are stock nozzled b-codes capable of? And with what turbo?

*My current Hypermax big 2's (200-225cc) w/ .010 EDM nozzles (~200%) paired with a GQSSB and my current mods with stock bottom end are capable of 525+ rwhp.

*What would b-codes w/ .010 EDM nozzles be capable of? And with what turbo - KASB, GQSSB, etc? And would I still be able to tow?

*What would the advantages/disadvantages be of going from my current injectors to the b-codes w/ .010 EDM nozzles?

Obviously I'd have tuning perfected that would make it work for an "all around" application to keep my stock bottom end together.

All supporting mods are in my sig.

Thanks!:ford:

CSIPSD · Mar 18, 2012

IIRC B codes stock are 250cc... So your gaining about 25cc/1000...

I've seen B codes be all over the place with different tuning... Seen them as low as 450hp, and as high as 650hp...

Blowby · Mar 18, 2012

The Hypermax B-codes put me at 603hp fuel only with tuning developed 6 years ago. The biggest advantage is the fuel available mid range. Large volume of fuel delivery that needs to be tuned down to a daily drive level. I still have my set packed up and might try them again if I don't sell them.

:naughty:

94.5 Stroker · Mar 18, 2012

Where do we get these b codes at? Sorry for the derail.

Strokersace · Mar 18, 2012

Thanks for the info Joe.

Blowby said:
The Hypermax B-codes put me at 603hp fuel only with tuning developed 6 years ago. The biggest advantage is the fuel available mid range. Large volume of fuel delivery that needs to be tuned down to a daily drive level. I still have my set packed up and might try them again if I don't sell them.

:naughty:

Mike, are the Hypermax b-codes modded along with diff nozzles? I'm assuming that yours have the .010 EDM nozzles on them? When you hit that fuel only hp number, was that in your blue truck? With the ASB at the time? If so, then how well did it dd and did you tow with it? Even with the tuning back then.

Strokersace · Mar 19, 2012

Bumpity bump...

Blowby · Mar 19, 2012

It was with the blue truck (F350 / ASB) and I tow'd a lot. I put about 80K miles in two years towing, DD and racing with the Hypermax B-codes with .010 edm nozzles and internal modification. I had them gone through not long before I pulled the motor for the F250 and had a little work for a smidge more fuel. I then ran at the Bakersfield NADM event with the motor in my F250 and it calculated 637hp on ET.

Hotrodtractor · Mar 19, 2012

Strokersace said:
Have some questions concerning these 2 injectors ONLY for comparison. No hybrid talk. Just trying to find out the advantages/disadvantages between my current injectors and b-codes:

*What rwhp are stock nozzled b-codes capable of? And with what turbo?

*My current Hypermax big 2's (200-225cc) w/ .010 EDM nozzles (~200%) paired with a GQSSB and my current mods with stock bottom end are capable of 525+ rwhp.

*What would b-codes w/ .010 EDM nozzles be capable of? And with what turbo - KASB, GQSSB, etc? And would I still be able to tow?

*What would the advantages/disadvantages be of going from my current injectors to the b-codes w/ .010 EDM nozzles?

Obviously I'd have tuning perfected that would make it work for an "all around" application to keep my stock bottom end together.

All supporting mods are in my sig.

Thanks!:ford:

When you say "stock nozzles b-codes" - do you mean stock 7.3 nozzles, or stock b-code nozzles - and if its the second one, which stock b-code nozzle?

You should be able to tow and live a happy life with good, dialed in tuning.

Comparison between the two - the b-codes will offer less injection pressure at low ICP situations, and depending on flow rates might offer similar if not more injection pressure at high ICP situations - this is a tough comparison to make without have the exact flow data for each as both will have similarities in certain areas, and both will excel in other areas, but its a matter of telling you exactly where those areas are.

WIESEL · Mar 19, 2012

Blowby said:
The Hypermax B-codes put me at 603hp fuel only with tuning developed 6 years ago. The biggest advantage is the fuel available mid range. Large volume of fuel delivery that needs to be tuned down to a daily drive level. I still have my set packed up and might try them again if I don't sell them.

:naughty:

How much would you want for them??

Strokersace · Mar 19, 2012

Blowby said:
It was with the blue truck (F350 / ASB) and I tow'd a lot. I put about 80K miles in two years towing, DD and racing with the Hypermax B-codes with .010 edm nozzles and internal modification. I had them gone through not long before I pulled the motor for the F250 and had a little work for a smidge more fuel. I then ran at the Bakersfield NADM event with the motor in my F250 and it calculated 637hp on ET.

Thanks! That answers a ton of questions that I've had about my application.

Hotrodtractor said:
When you say "stock nozzles b-codes" - do you mean stock 7.3 nozzles, or stock b-code nozzles - and if its the second one, which stock b-code nozzle?

You should be able to tow and live a happy life with good, dialed in tuning.

Comparison between the two - the b-codes will offer less injection pressure at low ICP situations, and depending on flow rates might offer similar if not more injection pressure at high ICP situations - this is a tough comparison to make without have the exact flow data for each as both will have similarities in certain areas, and both will excel in other areas, but its a matter of telling you exactly where those areas are.

Good question on the stock b-code nozzles. I've heard that some are split shot b's, some are 5 hole singles. Not sure how true that is. When I was refering to a stock nozzles, I was refering to a stock single shot nozzle that was capable of running in a 7.3.

Thanks for explaining the injection pressure differences. Unfortunately I don't have the exact flow data for each.

Strokersace · Mar 27, 2012

bumpity dumpity. Anymore info would be greatly appreciated!

CSIPSD · Mar 28, 2012

How about some reverse hybrid B codes from Mr Farmer... LOL

powerSmokin · Mar 28, 2012

I know he is developing some B code style injectors, calls em DD's. Only time will tell to see what they do when he gets em goin.

silverpsd_06 · Mar 29, 2012

I think I have b codes in my truck 275/226 they are old swamps injectors with a five hole nozzle.. They are hot sticks when I had everything all together and working properly they ran very very well from upper mid to the top somewhere from 1900-3800 rpm when the turbo lit up. Smokey down low even with a low tune, a very heavy haze is what I'd call it. I have compounds also I wouldn't recommend them for anything where you have to tow 800-1100 egt when cruising depending on wind. They get out of control hot by fourth gear I can stay in it til the top then i lose my nuts for fear of my pistons. Changing to 400/600 hybrids soon...

UNLIMITED_DIESEL · Mar 29, 2012

CSIPSD said:
How about some reverse hybrid B codes from Mr Farmer... LOL

http://rejects.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8339

OH NO! They're on to you Joe... LOL

Hotrodtractor · Mar 29, 2012

CSIPSD said:
How about some reverse hybrid B codes from Mr Farmer... LOL

UNLIMITED_DIESEL said:
http://rejects.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8339

OH NO! They're on to you Joe... LOL

I have three things that I feel I need to say about this - and that is all.

1) I can't believe that someone took Joe's comment seriously in any context.

2) I have one issue with what was typed over there.... the comment about "out flows all" I sincerly doubt that they out flow what we were doing back in 2008-2009 (which I believe predates his entire injector business). I'm not willing to post any info about what we were doing on the bench and in trucks, so its a moot point. If he were to post some nice injector flow graphs fully populated with data points across a multitude of pulsewidths and ICP pressures - it would be a great indicator of why they feel that those injectors are so special when it comes to tuning - I'll sum that up like this: "Lack of control resolution in his design".

3) I'm removing that link. There is no reason for the rejects of PSD forums from around the net to gain a couple more members. That is how they reproduce.

Groomzybanshee · Mar 29, 2012

Serious question... What is wrong with mikes double d setup?

Hotrodtractor said:
I have three things that I feel I need to say about this - and that is all.

1) I can't believe that someone took Joe's comment seriously in any context.

2) I have one issue with what was typed over there.... the comment about "out flows all" I sincerly doubt that they out flow what we were doing back in 2008-2009 (which I believe predates his entire injector business). I'm not willing to post any info about what we were doing on the bench and in trucks, so its a moot point. If he were to post some nice injector flow graphs fully populated with data points across a multitude of pulsewidths and ICP pressures - it would be a great indicator of why they feel that those injectors are so special when it comes to tuning - I'll sum that up like this: "Lack of control resolution in his design".

3) I'm removing that link. There is no reason for the rejects of PSD forums from around the net to gain a couple more members. That is how they reproduce.

Hotrodtractor · Mar 29, 2012

Groomzybanshee said:
Serious question... What is wrong with mikes double d setup?

Serious answer - I have had some criticism for not selling the injectors that I have built using a different hydraulic ratio than what is commonly available. I refuse to sell them even though I could. The reason I refuse to sell them is I KNOW anything that is going to be sold with my name on them needs to be nothing but top shelf - I have spent some time on and off as work, life, and money permits to improve the control resolution of my injectors. Right now he is selling injectors that "work" but they are finicky when it comes to tuning (Look up some of Vision Diesel's threads for instance) to get the idle and drivability characteristics where they want. This is because the tuner can call for two things when it comes to an injector - pulsewidth and ICP - any two combinations of those will inject a particular volume of fuel - with more control resolution built into the design of the injector you can better control the exact volume of fuel you need for say idling and driving - all while still having the large volume of fuel delivered at WOT. Essentially this is also the same reason why some people have good luck with running 200% injector tips on the street, and others don't - its all about being able to control the exact volume of fuel you want and being able to do it repeatably. I refuse to compromise on the fact that I want better control of what I have - and lots of testing and bench time has proven that I can increase this resolution substantially.

Wackerjr · Mar 29, 2012

My farmers diesel injectors work flawlessly.... I have been around just about every Injector out there..... and personally they have been the best performing out of the box to date..... Hands down.... Idle is stock... And on the big end dumb...once I get some air i think I can outperform comparable injects.....and he sells them

Strokersace · Mar 30, 2012

Groomzybanshee said:
Serious question... What is wrong with mikes double d setup?

Hotrodtractor said:
Serious answer - I have had some criticism for not selling the injectors that I have built using a different hydraulic ratio than what is commonly available. I refuse to sell them even though I could. The reason I refuse to sell them is I KNOW anything that is going to be sold with my name on them needs to be nothing but top shelf - I have spent some time on and off as work, life, and money permits to improve the control resolution of my injectors. Right now he is selling injectors that "work" but they are finicky when it comes to tuning (Look up some of Vision Diesel's threads for instance) to get the idle and drivability characteristics where they want. This is because the tuner can call for two things when it comes to an injector - pulsewidth and ICP - any two combinations of those will inject a particular volume of fuel - with more control resolution built into the design of the injector you can better control the exact volume of fuel you need for say idling and driving - all while still having the large volume of fuel delivered at WOT. Essentially this is also the same reason why some people have good luck with running 200% injector tips on the street, and others don't - its all about being able to control the exact volume of fuel you want and being able to do it repeatably. I refuse to compromise on the fact that I want better control of what I have - and lots of testing and bench time has proven that I can increase this resolution substantially.

So although I have no dog in this fight, nor am I a nutswinger for anyone, I'd like to see Groomzy's question really answered. HRT, you explained why "YOUR" injector designs aren't top notch and not on the market yet... BUT you did not in any way, explain as to what you think is wrong with Mike's injector design.

Unless you are implying that his injectors are IDENTICAL in every single way as yours are on the bench?!?!

And for what it's worth, I'm not considering Farmer's Double D's in my questions asking for comparisons, just stockish b-codes or modded b-codes like Blowby has ran.