Brute66 opinions

[TyCorr]

His numbers dont make sense unless those cummings are dyno queens.

100 percent nozzles dont seem any more capable of 550 but who really knows? People have done that with 30% nozzles, so I guess anything is possible. That setup seems realistic to me at right around 500hp. Even with an s 468...

 

[TyCorr]

Out of curiosity, how does a 38r compare to a D66?

I'm sure there is a lot of info else where on the 38r just haven't looked. Seems like everyone with an OBS goes d66 and superdutys go to 38r.

Everyone will tell you the 38r is no good or only up to 450hp or bla bla... whatever. Mine is kicking ass with 250/2s breathing in its face. I know some larger chargers will make better use of the fuel up high but lets get real, my ccsb truck with 6" lift and 35s is a street beater not a dragstrip machine. Its too heavy and big for that ish. I just wanted some clean aggressive power. Im on my 2nd set of 250/2s and the set I have now are from PIS and the idle resolution and smoothness through the pedal is unreal. With a 38r and some fuel(200/80-250/200) a 38r is very punchy on the street. Instaspool.

If you so desired it can work exceptionally well with lesser amounts of fuel and a trailer on the back.

I dig it!

 

[V-Ref]

Maybe change the name to FlywheelDynoProven?

 

[lincolnlocker]

Out of curiosity, how does a 38r compare to a D66?

I'm sure there is a lot of info else where on the 38r just haven't looked. Seems like everyone with an OBS goes d66 and superdutys go to 38r.

suposed to flow the same.. its just that its a ball bearing cartridge that allows a bit quicker spool up and a lil more abuse.. ask mattman347 how much abuse one can take.. lol

live life full throttle

 

[DocBar]

634 at the flywheel is 533 at the wheels at a 16% driveline loss. Not too crazy a number. If heard of 100% nozzles and a 38r makin 550.

My track times put my truck at over 550 with the Wizards tunes and him driving the truck, 100% nozzles and a 38R.

 

[lincolnlocker]

My track times put my truck at over 550 with the Wizards tunes and him driving the truck, 100% nozzles and a 38R.

thats cuz its a 38r

live life full throttle

 

[DocBar]

thats cuz its a 38r

live life full throttle

:doh:

 

[gnxtc2]

Like I posted earlier, I did not notice any difference between the D66 and Brute 66. IMHO, they are the same turbo aside from the thrust bearing. There is so much you can do to a turbo to stuff a 66 wheel in it.

Gotta ask yourself why did Garrett opt to design a different center section (ball bearing) for the 38R? Also the 38R has a ported compressor cover and an equal length blade wheel. The stock turbos have a non-ported cover and unequal length blades.

The 270° vs 360° has nothing to do with the performance (HP wise), it's just for the longevity/life of the turbo.

The turbo wheels for the TP38/TP38 are made by KTS billet turbo wheels, a company out of China. During the development stage of the wheels, Dieselsite kept the version that performed the best and signed exclusive rights of that design. The wheels sold by the other vendors, are the ones that didn't perform as well.

This is first hand info from KTS who I first met at PRI 2013 in Indy.

Like I posted earlier, when I swapped the stock turbo for the D66, it was smokey. I made no changes to the tunes. I swapped to billet 38r 11 blade wheel from Dieselsite when it first came out. Made more turbo whistle, helped with smoke very little.

I then swapped to the Brute when the oil seal went on the D66. I then put the 175/80s in. I got tunes burnt for the injectors/turbo combo from 3 different tuners. All the tunes had the same results....smoke and a VERY lazy spool up. What does that tell you about the turbo? IMHO: the fix is live tuning.

Billy T.
[email protected]

 

[lincolnlocker]

I did not notice any difference between the D66 and Brute 66. IMHO, they are the same turbo aside from the thrust bearing. There is so much you can do to a turbo to stuff a 66 wheel in it.

Gotta ask yourself why did Garrett opt to design a different center section (ball bearing) for the 38R?

The 270° vs 360° has nothing to do with the performance (HP wise), it's just for the longevity/life of the turbo.

The turbo wheels for the TP38/TP38 are made by KTS billet turbo wheels, a company out of China. During the development stage of the wheels, Dieselsite kept the version that performed the best and signed exclusive rights of that design. The wheels sold by the other vendors, are the ones that didn't perform as well.

This is first hand info from KTS who I first met at PRI 2013 in Indy.

Like I posted earlier, when I swapped the stock turbo for the D66, it was smokey. I made no changes to the tunes. I swapped to a the Brute when the oil seal went on the D66. I then put the 175/80s in. I got tunes burnt for the injectors/turbo combo from 3 different tuners. All the tunes had the same results....smoke and a VERY lazy spool up. What does that tell you about the turbo? IMHO: the fix is live tuning.

Billy T.
[email protected]

good post!

live life full throttle

 

[Carolina444]

Like I posted earlier, I did not notice any difference between the D66 and Brute 66. IMHO, they are the same turbo aside from the thrust bearing. There is so much you can do to a turbo to stuff a 66 wheel in it.

Gotta ask yourself why did Garrett opt to design a different center section (ball bearing) for the 38R? Also the 38R has a ported compressor cover and an equal length blade wheel. The stock turbos have a non-ported cover and unequal length blades.

The 270° vs 360° has nothing to do with the performance (HP wise), it's just for the longevity/life of the turbo.

The turbo wheels for the TP38/TP38 are made by KTS billet turbo wheels, a company out of China. During the development stage of the wheels, Dieselsite kept the version that performed the best and signed exclusive rights of that design. The wheels sold by the other vendors, are the ones that didn't perform as well.

This is first hand info from KTS who I first met at PRI 2013 in Indy.

Like I posted earlier, when I swapped the stock turbo for the D66, it was smokey. I made no changes to the tunes. I swapped to billet 38r 11 blade wheel from Dieselsite when it first came out. Made more turbo whistle, helped with smoke very little.

I then swapped to the Brute when the oil seal went on the D66. I then put the 175/80s in. I got tunes burnt for the injectors/turbo combo from 3 different tuners. All the tunes had the same results....smoke and a VERY lazy spool up. What does that tell you about the turbo? IMHO: the fix is live tuning.

Billy T.
[email protected]

So do you think that some live tuning can make the brute or d66 work and be a good charger?

 

[gnxtc2]

Possibly....but anything can be live tuned.

Forgot to mention, Jonathan live tuned my truck when he was mobile. When I put the D66 on, it became laggy and smokey.

By putting the 66 wheel on the journal bearing affects the spool up. The 38R has a ball bearing center section which greatly increases spool up. Maybe having a different exhaust wheel might help but this is getting into turbo design. I got this information from Jose at Forced Induction who was familiar with the 66 style turbos.

Billy T.
[email protected]

 

[TyCorr]

Yea...even if a d66 does flow more than a 38r, id shudder to drive one. Imagine a stock turbo with even more lag. I like the 38r as it spools riiiight now. Even with stock injectors it spools instantly.

 

[PSD POWER007]

Yea...even if a d66 does flow more than a 38r, id shudder to drive one. Imagine a stock turbo with even more lag. I like the 38r as it spools riiiight now. Even with stock injectors it spools instantly.

I can't see it flowing more myself. And heck, for the small price difference between the 38r and the wannabe's I can't see not going with the 38r. And I don't want to hear the rebuildable stuff. That trade off isn't worth smaller powerband due to the slower spool up. JMO

 

[jeremiahmercier]

So do you think that some live tuning can make the brute or d66 work and be a good charger?

Mine was live tuned again after installing the d66, it definitely helped... But like mentioned above, spool is not an issue with the 38r, and even with live tuning, it's night and day between the d66 and the 38r

 

[DocBar]

Mine was live tuned again after installing the d66, it definitely helped... But like mentioned above, spool is not an issue with the 38r, and even with live tuning, it's night and day between the d66 and the 38r

Maybe I'm missing something, but I wouldn't say the difference is night and day. I think the Brute 66 spools just fine and I haven't had EGT or smoke issues, either. I haven't towed with the Brute yet, so I can't comment on that.

 

[The Brad]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you can tune out the smoke, but get more lag, or add more fuel to spool, but get more smoke.

 

[Carolina444]

If i wasn't so busy I would buy a brute and have Jonathan live tune until it can do what they claim, just to put a positive end to this thread. I just don't have the time to make this happen

 

[PSD POWER007]

If i wasn't so busy I would buy a brute and have Jonathan live tune until it can do what they claim, just to put a positive end to this thread. I just don't have the time to make this happen

It would be a waste of time and money for sure.

 

[Carolina444]

It would be a waste of time and money for sure.

That's what it looks like but I wouldn't be scared to try it and see if it capable of making a nice charger

 

[PSD POWER007]

That's what it looks like but I wouldn't be scared to try it and see if it capable of making a nice charger

You better off going your BASB route. That will be guaranteed results. I just swapped from the original WW2 to the WW2 3866 in my 38r to see how it does towing. Hell I love my 38r, but I do have a BASB itch. I might try to find a OBS guy looking to upgrade and sell my IHI ups, delete pedestal, and turbo to as a kit.