CP4 Inlet Pressure Spec?

[Powerstroked162]

Dan, This is exactly why I am running Morgans custom setup of two factory LPFPs. We did as much research as possible and came to the conclusion that there is not a FASS or AIRDOG in existence that can flow the numbers of the stock ford pump, especially not while maintaining the reliability. From our knowledge, the pump flows around 75 psi under WOT and drops down to 55-65 under idle. (Morgan come check me on this). Steve 110 is insanely high! I dont remember hearing about that. If you look at my build thread you will see my two factory pumps. They will both run up to the h&s kit where they will equalize within that filter and then feed the cp3 and the cp4. Our only concern (which is very small) is that the cp3 is getting a little too much pressure, but we will find out. H&S doesnt have a problem so we feel that it will work out nicely. Its simple, dual factory pumps put out more reliability, more volume, and more psi than an aftermarket pump.

Oh and I have the flu, so disregard anything in that paragraph that does not make sense... Im all HOPPED UP ON MOUNTAIN DEW! (nyquil).....

Regulated to 120 homie. That doesn't mean thats "working psi" though. Nathanniel says 65-75psi on the LP system like you seee. Thats why I said "i would be curious to know what workable supply pressure is" in my post

.

 

[Dan]

I'm curious how your two Fass pumps are routed and what they actually are to be honest. I trust nothing that was done by CFD.

.

well the fass i have pumps i have paperwork on...

the 55psi 220 gph fass is routed from its own sump into the cp4 bipassing the factory pump... the factory fuel filter is to be deleted to make room for twin piping at cadp

the 15 psi 220 gph fass goes from a seperate sump into the hs cp3 and has its own return into the top of the tank...

this i am positive about since i was in that fuel system getting it all straightened out and installed the sumps for more powah!

 

[Powerstroked162]

That's correct...

Man Im stepping out here, Steve probably knows a fair bit more on how its setup.

Logically thinking here, the ECM has no idea it has 2 hpfp's The wiring is running parallel to the second pump through a split harness adapter... They are both controlled the same with the same signal from the ECM.

The tuning is just adding high pressure where they probably couldnt before, but now can.

Your "STILL" calling for the same amount of fuel at X-rpm and X-pulsewidth,

They are just making sure your high pressure is maintaining its desired level.

The purpose of "DUAL FUELERS" is not so much technically a power adder as it is a support item so they can continue on with the injection event without delay.

Yup, both pumps are not working at 100% capacity as I understand it.

.

 

[Dan]

ok im just trying to get this straight in my head we don't really care about pressure... (give or take a few psi)

we care about maintaining the pressure under high demand situations!!! so more importantly than pressure its flow rating that matters???

 

[Dan]

Yup, both pumps are not working at 100% capacity as I understand it.

.

until wot at max pulse width (on the verge of rail pressure dropping)... if that makes any sense...

i like to think i understand how the hp fuel system works on these beauties!

 

[4EverBoosted1]

Regulated to 120 homie. That doesn't mean thats "working psi" though. Nathanniel says 65-75psi on the LP system like you seee. Thats why I said "i would be curious to know what workable supply pressure is" in my post

.

Thanks for the info budddyyy! I missed that in my current daze...

 

[Dan]

Dan, This is exactly why I am running Morgans custom setup of two factory LPFPs. We did as much research as possible and came to the conclusion that there is not a FASS or AIRDOG in existence that can flow the numbers of the stock ford pump, especially not while maintaining the reliability. From our knowledge, the pump flows around 75 psi under WOT and drops down to 55-65 under idle. (Morgan come check me on this). Steve 110 is insanely high! I dont remember hearing about that. If you look at my build thread you will see my two factory pumps. They will both run up to the h&s kit where they will equalize within that filter and then feed the cp3 and the cp4. Our only concern (which is very small) is that the cp3 is getting a little too much pressure, but we will find out. H&S doesnt have a problem so we feel that it will work out nicely. Its simple, dual factory pumps put out more reliability, more volume, and more psi than an aftermarket pump.

Oh and I have the flu, so disregard anything in that paragraph that does not make sense... Im all HOPPED UP ON MOUNTAIN DEW! (nyquil).....

the only thing that i dont really like is the factory fuel filter is retained.... and i dunno if i like that .... i love the IDEA of a water seperator filter etc etc

 

[CATDiezel]

ok im just trying to get this straight in my head we don't really care about pressure... (give or take a few psi)

we care about maintaining the pressure under high demand situations!!! so more importantly than pressure its flow rating that matters???

In a precise environment its easier to monitor PRESSURE..

Remember pressure is a by-product of flow.

IF Ford spec'd the HPFP to be regulated at 80psi for instance...then they are achieving a very precise flow rate to the hpfp

PRESSURE and FLOW are of the same father--- cannot have one without the other.

I live in the pipeline world were Natural gas is sold by volume... however... we measure its volume/flow based on pressure differential output and a bunch of other parameters.... (technically we use ultra sonic sound wave form) to measure with precisely but we wont get into that form of measurement....

 

[Powerstroked162]

until wot at max pulse width (on the verge of rail pressure dropping)... if that makes any sense...

i like to think i understand how the hp fuel system works on these beauties!

Even then, you aren't going to use enough fuel to require both pumps be at 100% capacity. The cp3 and cp4 are two totally different animals. Cp4 is a high injection pressure/low volume pump built for a 4cylinder euro engine. The cp3 is it's polar opposite, low injection pressure/high volume. Kepp in mind, low/high are laymen's terms. I doubt you boys want me to break it down by kpa lol

Thanks for the info budddyyy! I missed that in my current daze...

Dude, I'm still kicking the flu from last weekend. What a bish. I feel your state of mind right now lol

 

[4EverBoosted1]

Only the frame mounted filters are retained. The filter up top is the h&s filter.

 

[Dzchey21]

generally speaking on a common rail system the low pressure system is pretty low pressure. I think cp3s are the happiest around 15psi but i have seen guys push about 50 to try and make a single stock pump or dual fuelers push the limit of maintaining rail pressure.

That being said i can only see a few reasons that the low pressure system would need to be cranked up that high

the system cant maintain pressure with out it
the system will maintain but generate more heat and wear from the HPFP
29k rail pressure is harder to make then what im thinking it should
the cp4 doesnt have much or any of a low pressure pump built in like a cp3 or a 6.4 pump. Judging by the size of a cp4 it must not have much...

On dual fuelers esp with not an extremely large nozzle you dont need the low pressure system to generate crazy psi to get the hpfp to maintain.

unless.... the injector can match the flow of two pumps. Meaning at the right pw and pressure 2 pumps is just enough to maintain, Where on 6.4s 2 pumps will maintain exactly 2x the injector nozzle size. Again this is possible im not super familiar with the 6.7 system

Easy button= two factory fuel pump systems, one feeding each pump or using the factory pump to maintain the stock pump and a fass or something feeding the cp3

i dont know how happy a cp3 will be with 75 psi i know 6.4 pumps don't and will not take more than 15 for very long without pushing the seal out of the pump and filling the crankcase with fuel

 

[CATDiezel]

until wot at max pulse width (on the verge of rail pressure dropping)... if that makes any sense...

i like to think i understand how the hp fuel system works on these beauties!

IF you maxx out two pumps your probably somewhere in the neighborhood of 12-1300hp!!

Neither of the two pumps will be maxed out under 1000hp.

That all depends on how linear the fuel curve is in relation to horsepower.

Getting way out in left field now! LOL

 

[4EverBoosted1]

generally speaking on a common rail system the low pressure system is pretty low pressure. I think cp3s are the happiest around 15psi but i have seen guys push about 50 to try and make a single stock pump or dual fuelers push the limit of maintaining rail pressure.

That being said i can only see a few reasons that the low pressure system would need to be cranked up that high

the system cant maintain pressure with out it
the system will maintain but generate more heat and wear from the HPFP
29k rail pressure is harder to make then what im thinking it should
the cp4 doesnt have much or any of a low pressure pump built in like a cp3 or a 6.4 pump. Judging by the size of a cp4 it must not have much...

On dual fuelers esp with not an extremely large nozzle you dont need the low pressure system to generate crazy psi to get the hpfp to maintain.

unless.... the injector can match the flow of two pumps. Meaning at the right pw and pressure 2 pumps is just enough to maintain, Where on 6.4s 2 pumps will maintain exactly 2x the injector nozzle size. Again this is possible im not super familiar with the 6.7 system

Easy button= two factory fuel pump systems, one feeding each pump or using the factory pump to maintain the stock pump and a fass or something feeding the cp3

i dont know how happy a cp3 will be with 75 psi i know 6.4 pumps don't and will not take more than 15 for very long without pushing the seal out of the pump and filling the crankcase with fuel

THIS.. Is my main concern since I am about to feed that cp3 some serious fuel..

 

[Dzchey21]

lucky for you it will just be an external leak and you will know right away.

 

[09stroker]

Only the frame mounted filters are retained. The filter up top is the h&s filter.

So do you have to buy two sets of filters and not use the engine mounted one? Or are you able to buy them individually??

 

[Dzchey21]

So do you have to buy two sets of filters and not use the engine mounted one? Or are you able to buy them individually??

from what i have read at this point no you cant buy just the one

 

[Powerstroked162]

from what i have read at this point no you cant buy just the one

Yup.

.

 

[4EverBoosted1]

So do you have to buy two sets of filters and not use the engine mounted one? Or are you able to buy them individually??

Yup. The upper one is trash

 

[Cc2cuz]

On a few emails passed back and forth between Bentley and I before I ordered his dual fuelers he mentioned that there is a low pressure switch that will trigger if pressure drops below 50 psi, but that switch is only tied into the instrument cluster and NOT the ECM. He said that on his almost 900 hp run it maintained 15 psi. He said they are still doing testing to see at what point an aftermarket pump would be beneficial, but as of now he has yet to see the factory pump fall behind.

 

[MorganY]

THIS.. Is my main concern since I am about to feed that cp3 some serious fuel..

Keep in mind its uncharted areas. Going along with what I believe Dustin was stating comparing the 6.4 system..

Consider H&S says their low system dropped to 15psi @ WOT on one factory lpump/cp3cp4; assuming they are ~1.9ms<=2.2ms, and running factory nozzles, what will pressures and flow look like with 60% nozzles and another factory lpump in the equation? Something to think about. Wish I had the knowledge to correlate on paper first.