DocBar's Build Issues

[02BigD]

Can we get a starting post that explains what your running into to start the discussion here? Please and thank you.

 

[PowerstrokeJunkie]

$90 an hour! damn if you stop by md some time, i'll charge you $40 an hour LOL

 

[thuglike]

Based on this brief description - I would say you have an issue somewhere - and its in the HPO system somewhere... that means oil feed to the reservoir, reservoir, pump, IPR, lines, injectors, etc... Your truck should be snappy and consistent. Start a thread here that outlines your issues - I've seen the huge thread over on PSN - and honestly I haven't read but a fraction of it. Of course I'm going to ask for some AE info that you don't have, I'm going to ask what oil you're running, as well as any additives, and I'm going to ask if there are any scenarios where it always seems to run great, or it always seems to run like crap.

Reliable is jumping in, turning the key, and not worrying about it. Period.We can get into the merits of compounds - but until you fix the underlying issue - it doesn't matter, throwing more money and turbos at it won't fix it. You have a solid base that just needs to have the "kinks" worked out - and unfortunately I have yet to see a build that didn't have some kinks. These aren't like small block chevy engines where you can almost go down to the grocery store to buy parts and they work out of the box.

To give you a for instance - last summer I did what I call a "medium power build" for a local guy that is doing nothing but truck pulling his truck. It has a Gen3 pump, Custom S400 charger, 400/200 sticks, fuel system, etc... all on the stock bottom end (forged rod truck). I didn't get a chance to fully test it before it left my shop due to some parts issues and timing and whatever - the list goes on... the truck ran good out of the gate, but then performance started to suffer, and then suffer some more.... I brought back into the shop and started diagnosing.... I found it wasn't making ICP and started to track down issues.... first thing I found was a blown seal on the front of the Gen3.... fixed that and went testing again.... it was noticably better, but fell off after the initial punch.... pulled the sticks because of some development work I was questioning - nothing wrong... pulled the stock HPOP and the IPR - tossed it all back together and BAM - runs like a champ, launches hard and pulls like a damn freight train. The moral of the story is its probably not one big issue plaguing you - its lots of small issues making your experience less than desirable.

It took me 2 years to figure that one out.

It took me a solid year to work the bugs out...nothing too serious. An ICP issue, a blown Termy pump, a couple bad IPR's as a result of the termy passing on and some tuning issues.

I've worked on tuning the most, I knew I had a great list of parts and was extremely confident in my builder (DI). I've lost track on how many hours Jody has riding shotgun to dial each and every tune in just right.

The results are great...I DD it with no smoke or EGT issues at all.

I get 23 mpg on the highway
and it runs great on the track and dyno.

I've lost 0, nada, none, zip, zilch days due to motor or trany issues. When I first got it...I babied it, hen one day I ran it at the track and dyno'd the next day and it lived. I stopped bing concerned right there. I get in it, turn the key and drive. If it breaks..I'll fix it. I did it once, now I know what the hell I'm doing, so I'll do it again.

Tuning and patience..your going to have to re-learn your rig. It's not yours yet...not til you have that break through moment.

 

[Powerstroke Racer]

Just my 2 cents, the title of the thread is wrong as was the way the other post on PSN was made. I built a mechanical engine for the OP with customer supplied injectors and a 100,000 mile plus body/wiring harness. The build did as it was supposed to and the entire truck ran great while I had it, great throttle response and plenty of usable power on tap. Fast forward, we have some drivability issues
I have built plenty of 450-650 capable trucks and for the most part all have been happy. A few expect GT42/B code trucks to act like a supercharged high compression big block, I can get close but not as instant.
There are many many variables that come into play and have to be checked off one at a time.
I'll give you one example
I bad injector leaking compression gasses back into the fuel rails can cause alot of issues without ever knowing exactly which injector is at fault or even be enough of a problem for the average shop to even speculate that a injector is the cause...

 

[Hotrodtractor]

Just my 2 cents, the title of the thread is wrong as was the way the other post on PSN was made. I built a mechanical engine for the OP with customer supplied injectors and a 100,000 mile plus body/wiring harness. The build did as it was supposed to and the entire truck ran great while I had it, great throttle response and plenty of usable power on tap. Fast forward, we have some drivability issues
I have built plenty of 450-650 capable trucks and for the most part all have been happy. A few expect GT42/B code trucks to act like a supercharged high compression big block, I can get close but not as instant.
There are many many variables that come into play and have to be checked off one at a time.
I'll give you one example
I bad injector leaking compression gasses back into the fuel rails can cause alot of issues without ever knowing exactly which injector is at fault or even be enough of a problem for the average shop to even speculate that a injector is the cause...

I created the thread title - it was not my intent to discredit anyone specific - but there is more to this project than what DI did just as you stated. This thread is about making the entire truck work together - the entire project is the build and I for one would like to try and help a fellow Powerstroke enthusiast solve his issues without finger pointing.

 

[Tom S]

How often do you see that where and injector is letting combustion gas seep past the pintle? I had not see anything written about that in a while now and it would be good to keep that info fresh.

 

[co04cobra]

I have exactly the same opinion as you do. The unfortunate part is that I'm 1,000 miles away (literally) from the builder and depend on this truck every day. I started a thread on PSN called "An honest opinion on high hp builds". Some took this as me bashing the builders/vendors that I used, but that wasn't the intent. The intent was to point out that these builds vary from truck to truck. Some get great builds, some get crappy builds, most get so-so builds with bugs to work out. It tends to vary by truck more than builder. There's no AHA!! that can be pointed to. It's these multiple, minor bugs that need to be worked out. I know for a fact that I've had injector, hpop, and fuel issues. Damn. Narrow that down. It would take a very good builder some time to work these issues out. I need my truck today. I can't afford a rental. I can't afford the time off to drive my truck to my builder and fly back to my job and rent a vehicle. I paid well over $20K to avoid these issues, only to confront them with a pissed off wife and a pissed of me. I now understand that this is part of the process. There will be bugs and there will be down time. That leads me to seriously question the reliability issue. My builder had the truck for nearly 3 months. I was in *****ia when the engine was built. 3 months + $20K should equal bulletproof. I don;t expect my builder drive the truck every day for a month or more, so the logical conclusion is that these builds aren't "reliable". They can get that way, but usually only after trial and error. That's nobody's fault. That's just the nature of the 7.3L beast.

I think I posted this on PSN also, but anyway. Here is where the overall picture I think is a little misleading. Unless you happen to have the knowledge, facilities, tools etc... that HRT does you SHOULD expect these 'growing pains" on ALL platforms. I think to have 650 hp and never of had the valve covers off would be an exception NOT the rule. Just because its CR does not mean that this is the way things are going to happen. Ive watched quite a few guys spend 20K plus on 6.4s, 6.6s and 5.9s to still have something that they're not sure is quite the way it should be. On your particular build you are at a huge disadvantage not being able to diagnosis, wrench on, or datalog the things that need to be checked. I know you use your truck daily. I dont know if you have one, but a easy way to monitor a lot of things while driving is a scangauge without trying to look beside you at a laptop. You have most everything there to have a killer combo. I want to see you get this ironed out. Just please dont be one of these guys going around telling everybody " I wish I'd just put a cummins in it. Id have twice the Hp at half the cost and yada yada yada" because that is not the case. If you are ever in WV and can make it to my shop I will ride along, datalog, and give you my opinion for free. I am in no way an expert, but love to see you get it going.

 

[DocBar]

[/I][/B]


I think I posted this on PSN also, but anyway. Here is where the overall picture I think is a little misleading. Unless you happen to have the knowledge, facilities, tools etc... that HRT does you SHOULD expect these 'growing pains" on ALL platforms. I think to have 650 hp and never of had the valve covers off would be an exception NOT the rule. Just because its CR does not mean that this is the way things are going to happen. Ive watched quite a few guys spend 20K plus on 6.4s, 6.6s and 5.9s to still have something that they're not sure is quite the way it should be. On your particular build you are at a huge disadvantage not being able to diagnosis, wrench on, or datalog the things that need to be checked. I know you use your truck daily. I dont know if you have one, but a easy way to monitor a lot of things while driving is a scangauge without trying to look beside you at a laptop. You have most everything there to have a killer combo. I want to see you get this ironed out. Just please dont be one of these guys going around telling everybody " I wish I'd just put a cummins in it. Id have twice the Hp at half the cost and yada yada yada" because that is not the case. If you are ever in WV and can make it to my shop I will ride along, datalog, and give you my opinion for free. I am in no way an expert, but love to see you get it going.

Thanks a lot for that. I think I'm going to have to break down and buy AE. I could've bought it twice over for what I've spent getting shops to do it for me. That way I at least have some hard data to give to people who know what they're looking at.
Right now, I'm thinking it's just a lot of little things that need ironed out. I'm planning on having David look at the engine and tranny when I'm in Houston next. He'll probably say oh yeah, here, here and here. Fix these and everything will be much more gooder.

 

[Hotrodtractor]

[/I][/B]


I think I posted this on PSN also, but anyway. Here is where the overall picture I think is a little misleading. Unless you happen to have the knowledge, facilities, tools etc... that HRT does you SHOULD expect these 'growing pains" on ALL platforms. I think to have 650 hp and never of had the valve covers off would be an exception NOT the rule. Just because its CR does not mean that this is the way things are going to happen. Ive watched quite a few guys spend 20K plus on 6.4s, 6.6s and 5.9s to still have something that they're not sure is quite the way it should be. On your particular build you are at a huge disadvantage not being able to diagnosis, wrench on, or datalog the things that need to be checked. I know you use your truck daily. I dont know if you have one, but a easy way to monitor a lot of things while driving is a scangauge without trying to look beside you at a laptop. You have most everything there to have a killer combo. I want to see you get this ironed out. Just please dont be one of these guys going around telling everybody " I wish I'd just put a cummins in it. Id have twice the Hp at half the cost and yada yada yada" because that is not the case. If you are ever in WV and can make it to my shop I will ride along, datalog, and give you my opinion for free. I am in no way an expert, but love to see you get it going.

I can totally agree with that. I expected to pull the valve covers off at some point for an issue, but never had to - but I have had growing pains and issues with the truck for sure such as tuning, rail pressure issues, boost leaks, turbo sizing (ended up going down in A/R on the atmosphere, and tweaking the high pressure a bit on both sides), etc... before getting to where it is today. Anyone that just slaps aftermarket parts at any of the trucks and doesn't go through this growing pains portion is either someone that got lucky and exactly copied a known good setup with 100% perfect attention to every detail, or someone that doesn't recognize when his truck isn't performing as it should. After reading your post I figured I needed to clear that up.

Jason

 

[DocBar]

Update:
Took my six month old alternator to otter zone today and had it tested out of the truck and it failed across the board. Swapped it out with a new one and the truck has run pretty good through several WOT runs on the highway. No batt light and the idle seemed quite a bit smoother before the WOT runs.
It still runs a little rough after them and the dipstick has some froth on it. I'm wondering if my hpop is crapping out on me. Are there any fixes, short of replacing the hpop for aerated oil?

I'm changing the fluid in my transfer case today and drained out 3-4 qts but could only get a little over 2 qts back in it. Any ideas or suggestions? I'm using a little hand pump I bought from otter zone to replace the fluid.

 

[Hotrodtractor]

Low and unstable voltage does some real funny stuff to these things.

Aerating oil is totally a concern on these things - but its likely not the HPOP that is your issues - its usually a result of the oil going through the HPO system - exiting the IPR and the injectors can induce air into the oil.

 

[DocBar]

Low and unstable voltage does some real funny stuff to these things.

Aerating oil is totally a concern on these things - but its likely not the HPOP that is your issues - its usually a result of the oil going through the HPO system - exiting the IPR and the injectors can induce air into the oil.

Are there any fixes? I have the crossover between the heads and all.

 

[neverkickn]

The crossover line isn't gonna do anything for aeration. It may or may not be doing anything at all depending on who you talk to.

Do you ever throw a p1211 code under WOT? How responsive is the truck when you are cruising around 2000 rpm? Can you give it a little throttle and get it to take off, or is it sluggish and smokey unless you gently roll into the pedal?

 

[DocBar]

The crossover line isn't gonna do anything for aeration. It may or may not be doing anything at all depending on who you talk to.

Do you ever throw a p1211 code under WOT? How responsive is the truck when you are cruising around 2000 rpm? Can you give it a little throttle and get it to take off, or is it sluggish and smokey unless you gently roll into the pedal?

The truck has been varying in responsiveness. After changing the transfer case fluid, I drove it 20 miles back to work and back (40 miles round trip) and on the trip back, it felt VERY slugglish. On the trip there, I stood on it after turning onto a road and the truck absolutely fell on its face. All smoke and no go. I'm wondering if it's tranny, transfer case or wheel hubs. I put the truck in 4WD today and I'm thinking that might've been a mistake. My wheel bearing hubs are about shot.

 

[Dieselboy.]

You need a scan guage. It would instantlly tell you ICP and DC%. Probably the best mod I did to the truck other than put fuel in it...

I have an intermittant issue with my truck falling on its face. ICP flatlines and DC rises to over 65%. However zero smoke and low egts. Im thinking one of my SD pumps craped out.
Stop somewhere and shut her off. Runs fine WOT in any tune. Ive had so many odd issues with my build some days I wish a tree would fall on it in my driveway. But when it runs top notch. :evil.....

You need a some sort of diagnostic equipment. Scan gauge or AE on these builds is an essential.

 

[Powerstroked162]

The truck has been varying in responsiveness. After changing the transfer case fluid, I drove it 20 miles back to work and back (40 miles round trip) and on the trip back, it felt VERY slugglish. On the trip there, I stood on it after turning onto a road and the truck absolutely fell on its face. All smoke and no go. I'm wondering if it's tranny, transfer case or wheel hubs. I put the truck in 4WD today and I'm thinking that might've been a mistake. My wheel bearing hubs are about shot.

You need help

 

[DocBar]

You need help

The tranny crapped the bed on me yesterday. Luckily, I got back to Houston Friday nite. The truck will be at David's tomorrow morning.

 

[neverkickn]

What better place to get the wrinkles ironed out. Good luck.

 

[DocBar]

What better place to get the wrinkles ironed out. Good luck.

I completely agree. I think the truck will be in beast mode again by the end of the week.

 

[DocBar]

FWIW, David and I think the pump is on its way out on the transmission. I talked with ATS and they will not warranty anything. The truck IS out of warranty on years but 47,000 miles under on mileage.
David will check out the tranny and give me his recommendation on repairs. Hopefully it won't be too painful.