ficm tuner with larger injectors

Ross@Flyindiesel · Nov 1, 2012

been lookin into ficm programmers lately for my brothers truck and been lookin at the IDP ficm tuner. seems to me that bills flash doesnt to so hot on trucks with larger injectors. i know it wont be a huge gain but 20hp or so is what we are after with a slight increase in fuel eco. he has 175/75 on a stock turbo right now and turbo is coming but he is in high school so its taking him awhile to save up for it. anyways what are the thoughts now that its been out for awhile on a ficm programmer with larger injectors. and which tune should we get with eircs tuner?

If it helps any we are runnin tsd spd tune and it put out 460-470 on the dyno, reason why its in between is one day it was 470 the next it was 460.

windrunner408 · Nov 1, 2012

I like my IDP Mild FICM flash. I think it is comparible to Bill's Atlas 40. It had more power and throttle response down low than Bill's Economy FICM flash but none of his other ones made more power or had better throttle response with my 190/100s. I just stuck with the IDP flash and sold my PHP FICM tuner. I really think FICM tuners don't do a whole lot for bigger injectors and in fact kind of hurt performance (almost like stacking programmers/chips) unless they are like KEM or IDP where the FICM tune is written to compliment the ECM tuning. Either way though so far this IDP Flash runs great with my Looney Wild tune, 190s, and Stage 3 turbo.

Ross@Flyindiesel · Nov 1, 2012

Awesome info! Of course if I call idp they are going to say that it will help either way but which program would you recommend mild or moderate? And if you had to do it over again would it be worth it to you? And I know you have Chris' spd how does it respond with it compared to your looney

java · Nov 1, 2012

I know for me the FICM tune didnt do much but make more smoke with my 190/100s. But when i had stock injectors I noticed better throttle response and low end power.

BlueWaffle · Nov 1, 2012

in my conversations with Eric and Matt, they both say that FICM tunes won't really make much difference once you get to larger injectors (at least on most trucks.) you're already massaging PW for the larger nozzles so there isn't much to gain. I've talked to several people with much bigger setups than me and all a ficm tune did to them was make more smoke and heat, no real increase in power. they went back to stock ficms. each truck is different though

on stock injector trucks, there is definitely a benefit.

Mdub707 · Nov 2, 2012

Yeah the general consensus I got was FICM tuners are great for stock injectors, but if you're already bigger spend your money somewhere else.

Power Hungry · Nov 2, 2012

The problem we're running into with FICM tuning with larger injectors nozzles has a great deal to do with the relationship between the FICM tuning and the ECM tuning. If you're running large nozzled injectors and an aggressive ECM tune, the FICM tuning could actually end up overfueling in the lower RPM range with excessive smoke and EGTs as the net result.

We've been working on FICM tuning for large nozzle injectors and when used in combination with our own ECM tuning, we've had very good result as far as driveability and EGT control. Where it becomes difficult is when trying to match the FICM tuning to another vendors tunes. With stock nozzled injectors, this isn't much of a concern and our FICM tuning works quite well with most performance ECM tunes. Put modified nozzles in the mix and then you're looking at something entirely different.

It basically comes to this... When running larger injectors, you're going to need to match the FICM tuning and the ECM tuning in order to achieve the best results. Since Eric knows what he's running in his ECM tuning, his FICM tuning is going to complement the setup. Even our custom FICM tuning might not be the best match for Eric's or Matt's or whoever's tunes, because we're not tuning as a matched set. There are just too many variables in regards to how the ECM is tuned. Now, if it came down to running a combination of our ECM tuning and FICM tuning, the results would be considerably better.

Also, keep in mind that FICM tuning was designed to help overcome the PWM limitations of the injection systems by allowing longer pulsewidths. Modified nozzles will already increase fuel flow by allowing more fuel in a shorter time, so the benefits from FICM tuning in situations with modified injectors are going to be dramatically reduced.

I hope this helps.

strokin6L · Nov 2, 2012

thanks for the info Bill!

InnovativeDiesel · Nov 2, 2012

Stick with the lower power FICM tunes if you will be using PCM tuning. I have FICM tunes up to 100hp, but rarely use them. There's really no reason to offer high power FICM tuning only, since PCM/TCM tuning are really needed for efficiciency and to hold the power safely.

Gearhead · Nov 2, 2012

It would be nice if the ficm tunes would merely run the early 03 software and mild or moderate inductive heating like Bill's old economy file but for modified nozzles take the minimum pulsewidth allowed to a smaller number and pull about 5% of the pulsewidth map down in the idle region and blend this into the rest of the pw map. I can tune the rest in the fuel mapping.

01PSD · Nov 2, 2012

3 different tuners giving insight, that's what I love to see

:ford:

Twan · Nov 2, 2012

I have Eric's ficm tune, I can tell a noticeable difference, I only ran the tow tunes with it in, but the egts are also hotter. I had to take it out for pulling, got bills just not home to try it. If you don't pull a lot, or heavy or big inclosed trailer, it's worth it. Driven to a friends, we always run a spot that is around a half mile up hill, we turn and go all out, with the ficm tune and tow I run 103-105 with just the tow was at 98-100. This is the range with around 10+ runs each way, and many days, stock was hitting 90-92. If it wasn't for my 5th I would put the ficm tune back on. Was nice and fun!

Pizza pig · Nov 2, 2012

Gearhead said:
It would be nice if the ficm tunes would merely run the early 03 software and mild or moderate inductive heating like Bill's old economy file but for modified nozzles take the minimum pulsewidth allowed to a smaller number and pull about 5% of the pulsewidth map down in the idle region and blend this into the rest of the pw map. I can tune the rest in the fuel mapping.

This is what i need, big time. Get to crackin Bill! LOL

InnovativeDiesel · Nov 3, 2012

Gearhead said:
It would be nice if the ficm tunes would merely run the early 03 software and mild or moderate inductive heating like Bill's old economy file but for modified nozzles take the minimum pulsewidth allowed to a smaller number and pull about 5% of the pulsewidth map down in the idle region and blend this into the rest of the pw map. I can tune the rest in the fuel mapping.

No problem, we'll add inductive heating to our mild tune and it should be dialed right in.

powerstrokedkid87 · Nov 4, 2012

This is a great thread I know bill has been messing with my ficm tune with my 205s. Hopefully down the road tuners will be able to offer something that is compatible with different ECM tunes. Till than trial and error!

InnovativeDiesel · Nov 4, 2012

FICM tuning has been out a long time...it's really nothing new. We've been tuning FICM's since 2005. On the older conventional injectors, customers picked up ~80rwhp on high power trucks, like Shawn Ellertons 6.0L race truck and our race truck. With the various hybrid injectors, we've had to tone down our FICM tuning quite some. We can control most of the fueling in the PCM. The FICM fine tunes for better spoolup, power, and better overall efficiency.

If you are running PCM tuning, which most are, you'll find yourself making more power and better drivability with milder FICM tunes. This is dependent on who makes the PCM/TCM tuning, but in general it's the rule of thumb.

bft blue oval boys · Nov 4, 2012

Subed for great info in this thread.

What about the difference in 48 volt and 58 volt FICM with upgraded injectors?

Sent from my DROID4 using Tapatalk 2

InnovativeDiesel · Nov 4, 2012

bft blue oval boys said:
Subed for great info in this thread.

What about the difference in 48 volt and 58 volt FICM with upgraded injectors?

Sent from my DROID4 using Tapatalk 2

The voltage of the FICM won't affect the tuning. It does seem to help with long term reliability with cold weather voltage drops, etc. The trucks start quicker and are a little snappier with the ugprade. Larger injector trucks would benefit from the voltage upgrade more, especially if cold starts become an issue. You can notice an increase in the general response of the truck too. We have a lot of customers who upgrade to the 58v and FICM tuning, it's definitely noticable over stock.

That being said, it's probably not the upgrade you'd want to do if you already have a healthy stock FICM. I'd consider it when the FICM fails or if you have higher mileage and want the peace of mind that it's new.