Let's talk lockers

[6.4strokin]

How hard is it to install a locker looking to put one in my 6.4 for sled pullin purposes


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[dsberman94]

he said how he installed the detroit no spin.

 

[powerlifter405]

no he meant Mlocker. if you follow that link theres an Mlocker on it.

heres what im wondering about between the truetrac and the no-spin.
with the no spin it puts 100% power to the rear wheels which means a constant 50-50 split? where as the truetrac with the helical gears will split the power 50-50 most of the time but then when something happens like when you got stuck. wouldn't the truetrac have split the power more to the side that had traction than the side that didn't. so you stuck on the side of the road with one tire stuck in the mud would have gotten say 20% and the one on the hard roadway would have gotten 80%. correct me if im wrong. wouldn't the truetrac have been better in this application? im not trying to start a fight or an arguement just honestly curious.

Ok saw the link...
Mlocker, according to the link is from the European Eaton site and I've never seen and Mlocker application for a 10.5" but I've been wrong before.

I also like them for their strength. Here are the teeth on a no-spin

 

[powerlifter405]

Another example;
The detroit locker No-spin is standard in these:

And it is available for the Rockwell 2.5 ton axles as well :thumbsup:

Anything can be broken but if they make it for 5 ton+ military trucks we should fare ok 99% of the time.

 

[powerlifter405]

W/ the helical gear only a % gets sent to the tire w/ traction and I see how it can be confusing.

If you have a wheel stuck or better yet a wheel up, that wheel will spin slower and w/ less force than the tractioned tire.

In your senario, correctly it would have likely been 20% force on pavement and 80% in the mud. The slippery tire would be spinning more than your tire w/ traction, plus the torque to that good tire would still have to be enough to over come the forces to get you moving. SO, it could still turn out to be a Zero-0% on the pavement and 100% spinning in the mud. The design does not force full engagement. It is designed to please the pavement pounders.

The internal gears don't care which tire it is, it will still send more power to the tire that is on a surface w/ less friction coefficent. If the tire on the pavement has a Chuck Norris kung-fu grip on the pavement but the mud is like a greased pig, especially on a 7600lb truck, I'd bet dollars to peso's you'd still be stuck. The helical gear will never provide the traction benefit the No-spin does, it's the nature of the design.

The no-spin will always provide traction to both wheels unless you snap an axle shaft or the internals. If you snapped an axle shaft, one tire would still turn w/ 100% force.

On a helical gear if you snapped an axle shaft, you're screwed as the good shaft/wheel will act like your on pavement and the broken one will think mud. The broken shaft will turn with more force than the good shaft and you will sit still there or best bet, move along at a snails pace.

Since the 10.5 is a full floating axle it is an honest test you could perform w/o breaking anything. Remove the axle shaft and see which one performs better.

The no-spin would turn into a one wheeled wonder but it would drive like it was just off the lot. I'd bet money that the helical gear, at best maybe crawls along slowly. Again, I can't see spending 550 bucks for basically a modified open diff VS $650 for 100% turnie-the wheels no matter what situation.

Another example, albeit extreme; is the photo. If the fronts were the only drive tires, you'd be stuck w/ a helical gear or LS. The detroit w/ allow the tire touching to spin.

 

[powerlifter405]

he said how he installed the detroit no spin.

Trick: heat the ring gear in the oven before slipping it over the detroit. The tolerances are so tight you'll barely get it on.

In my humble opinion, if someone is hell bent on a LS or helical then great. They are what they are. I'm not saying you are but some in this thread like them and thats fine.

However, guys can't ask for SD, PSD performance out of a toyota tacoma. It will work for 99% of your daily needs if you have to drive back and forth to your desk job. But when you need it to step up and perform in a harsh environment and it fails, then you can't be mad when it's not up to task.

Here's my jab at being cheap:
Guys here will spend thousands on go-fast parts but they never legally race. They get giant expensive mud tires and God awful blingy rims but they don't work on a farm and don't live in the ghetto. They get giant LED off road lights but they don't baja race. People will send a sh$t ton of money on stereos, flame paint jobs, frickin loud a$$ stacks :blah: but for some reason, spending an extra hundred on a no-spin is breaking the bank, or it's too loud :lame:

Really too loud :bs:? You have a 5" exhaust and a WW with that cool whistle. The 7.3 is God awful loud to begin w/, how can a "ratchet" sound almost 15 feet from you, underneath the rear bed, next to the exhaust by off road tires be "too loud"??

My simple rant
Happy Monday :clapping:

 

[dsberman94]

From watching the video of how the truetrac works I am under the impression that it sends more power to the wheel with traction. You stated the opposite. Again not arguing learning.

 

[weekendwarriorfsw32]

Subscribing

 

[jdgleason]

Justin has a true trac in his, as well as one of his customers trucks. They love them. No noise, no binding, just both tires put down power when they are told to.

Mine will have a true trac later this winter.

http://youtu.be/-dyOo_pI4v0

 

[powerlifter405]

From watching the video of how the truetrac works I am under the impression that it sends more power to the wheel with traction. You stated the opposite. Again not arguing learning.

I understand.

Due to it's design it should send power. Maybe the design has improved oer the years but inherantly it will never equal the No-spin.

For arguements sake, what comes installed in those large military trucks? Tru-tracs or No-spins?

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...IBz4j_vXh0oe7chVOeD3S_g&bvm=bv.57752919,d.eW0

I saw an Eaton Truetrac vid but there is only music no explanation of it's mechanics.

At the end of the NoSpin video, as it's pointed out, even if one tire is off the ground you will still have full power.

If you were weighed down, I'm not convinced the TT would pull you out of a situation. If the TT performed the exact same function as the NS there would be no need for the NS to exist.

NoSPIN maximizes traction by delivering 100% of the torque and power to both drive wheels. It is engineered to keep both wheels in a constant drive mode,.... NoSPIN continues to drive your vehicle even if one of the wheels is suspended in the air.


The Eaton Detroit Truetrac® limited-slip differential is the pioneer in helical gear based traction technology. Wheel spin out is limited by the differential, which employs pinion- and side-gear separation forces to automatically transfer torque to the wheel with the best traction. Mobility, stability and handling are enhanced, and drivers can be confident knowing that up to 3.5 times more torque is being transferred to the high-traction wheel.....The Truetrac® operates as a standard or open differential under normal driving conditions, allowing one wheel to spin faster or slower as necessary. When a wheel encounters a loss of traction, the gear separation forces take effect and transfers torque to the high-traction wheel. The helical-shaped pinion gears continue to mesh with the side gears with increasing force until wheel spin is slowed or completely stopped.

I stand corrected as product as improved over the years but I'm still a firm believer in the 100% NS.

From Eaton themselves, the TT is a geared LS When a wheel encounters a loss of traction, the gear separation forces take effect and transfers torque to the high-traction wheel. The helical-shaped pinion gears continue to mesh with the side gears with increasing force until wheel spin is slowed or completely stopped. In an open diff the tire w/ the lowest friction coefficient starts digging a hole then it often goes back and forth as both never are able to equally apply force and subsequently multiple holes are dug.

In the end w/ the TT you get an improved LS or you get the NS for full-on-locked.

 

[Derkperk]

Any experience with a no slip in the front axle on a street driven truck?

 

['94IDITurbo7.3]

So with the no-spin, i take it you would get chirping the inside tire when making a sharp turn on pavement? and with the tru-trac you wouldn't get the chirping in turns?


This is the most i have ever read about differentials so needless, to say i am learning LOL.

 

[dsberman94]

No spin. De locks around corners. Follow that thread and read about them.

 

[powerlifter405]

Any experience with a no slip in the front axle on a street driven truck?

Negative personal experience. If it's primarily street driven why waste the $? Get a NS and call it a day :redspotdance:

So with the no-spin, i take it you would get chirping the inside tire when making a sharp turn on pavement? and with the tru-trac you wouldn't get the chirping in turns?

This is the most i have ever read about differentials so needless, to say i am learning LOL.

That "chirping" etc is a reason listed but I'm willing to bet the guys that say they want the TT-limited slip have never had a NS. Like I said several times, I had one in my 02, 08 and I'm putting one in my 99. No chirp. If you gas it hard as you go around the corner it will try to lock up. So the choice is your's if you gonna floor it everytime you make sharp turns it will lock. I've done a sh$t ton of donuts w/ both and both tires turned and made plenty of pretty tire marks but no issues.

No spin. De locks around corners. Follow that thread and read about them.

Thank you.

I emailed Eaton:

OEM or end-user information:

Product Application Related to Inquiry: Which product would perform best in a WORSE case scenario; NoSpin or TrueTrac? If one tire is up off the ground, will the Truetrac function as equally well as the NoSpin? Thanks!


To: [email protected]

The Truetrac requires resistance to both wheels to transfer power so with a wheel off the ground the unit will not be able to transfer power.


Brent Bussell
Customer Support
Technical Specialist
Phone# (248)226-6762
Fax# (248)226-6740


After watching the TT video again and reading the description it is obvious that the TT won't turn the tires 1:1. It ALWAYS requires some resistance to work.

Again, it proves the TT won't provide the 100% grip compared to the NS. I've said it for several pages but here it is from Eaton. I can't argue the TT won't work for plenty but personally, if I'm spending nearly the same amount of $$, I'm using the NS. It will work when the TT won't.

 

[alwil]

The gear shop that I bought my tt from told me they do not work in reverse.....I have no idea if this is true or not as I never had to try.


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[dsberman94]

I believe you have swayed my decision from Tt to ns.

 

[Izzybird]

I bought a Grand Cherokee for cheap because a rear wheel bearing sounded awful. I stumbled across another rear end for $20, guy said it had a true trac in it so I threw it under the Cherokee. It is a ratcheting, tire eating, mofo I can tell you that. The Cherokee is also 2wd with stock tires. My guess is that this locker is probably actually a no spin? I'd like to put one in my truck and I figured it would behave completely differently in a heavy diesel 4x4, but if it's anything like that jeep I'd need to take out a loan for tires.

 

[lincolnlocker]

True trac in my dually for 80k miles and not a single problem. Ive put it through its paces many times towing, off road, on road, drag racing, and hooked to the transfer sled... not a single issue... I will be putting one in the front diff as well cuz its going to be hooked to the sled a lot more.

If anyone has problems with one tire spinning, just lean into the breaks a lil. That will make the tt spin both tires evenly.

My cousin ran the no slip in his superduty and didn't like it. Always had the popping noise and broke a shaft while towing his goose neck trailer.

live life full throttle

 

[powerlifter405]

I bought a Grand Cherokee for cheap because a rear wheel bearing sounded awful. I stumbled across another rear end for $20, guy said it had a true trac in it so I threw it under the Cherokee. It is a ratcheting, tire eating, mofo I can tell you that. The Cherokee is also 2wd with stock tires. My guess is that this locker is probably actually a no spin? I'd like to put one in my truck and I figured it would behave completely differently in a heavy diesel 4x4, but if it's anything like that jeep I'd need to take out a loan for tires.

If it was a TT it wouldn't have done any tire eating. The old school Detroit Lockers were extremely aggressive. There have been design changes which resulted in the most recent version of the NoSpin as I have been told.

Other companies make locking differentials so there is no way to be sure you had an Eaton product as well.

True trac in my dually for 80k miles and not a single problem. Ive put it through its paces many times towing, off road, on road, drag racing, and hooked to the transfer sled... not a single issue... I will be putting one in the front diff as well cuz its going to be hooked to the sled a lot more.

If anyone has problems with one tire spinning, just lean into the breaks a lil. That will make the tt spin both tires evenly.

My cousin ran the no slip in his superduty and didn't like it. Always had the popping noise and broke a shaft while towing his goose neck trailer.

live life full throttle

Given their applications to include construction equipment and OTR trucks, I would be very interested in the situation that your cousin snapped that axle.
Flukes do happen but any axle breakage in off-roading I've seen is by repeated HARD throttle application where slippage is occuring, followed up by a sudden change in grip.

From what I've read if someone is having popping noise, it tends to either be set up inproperly or too much throttle input around corners. I don't know his situation but I've run two seperate vehicles w/ the NS and NO popping and no breakage.

I've heard about leaning on the brakes but If I'm in a situation where i'm about to be stuck, leaning on the brakes is the last thing I wanna do.

To each his own.

http://www.eaton.com/ecm/groups/public/@pub/@eaton/@per/documents/content/ct_128311.pdf

http://www.eaton.com/ecm/groups/public/@pub/@eaton/@per/documents/content/ct_128312.pdf

Applications:
• 6x4 (tandem-drive axle) Trucks Primary location - forward rear. Both rear axles for maximum mobility if used 75% offroad.
• 4x4 Off-Road Vehicles Farm tractors (articulated & rigid) front axle. Also rear axle for maximum traction.
(Consult Tractech Engineering.)
• Farm Tractors (straight frame with front-wheel-drive) -front axle only
(cannot be used in rear axle with individual wheel brakes).
• Loader - One axle only, either front or rear

 

[4x4given]

I used to run Lock Rite (lunchbox) lockers in the front and rear of my Jeep Wrangler. Worked great, the slight clicking noise on turns never bother me. Sold the Jeep and regret it.

Now I have a 2007 F350 XLT SuperCab 4x4 DRW Auto 6.0L with manual locking hubs and manual shifted TC. Dana 60 front, Dana 80 rear and 3.73 gearing. Open diffs on both ends, and that is simply useless in reduced traction conditions. So, as soon as I can afford it, I'll put a TrueTrac in the rear and No-spin in the front. (Can't seem to find a No-spin for the rear.)