Mechanically Injected 7.3 Trucks Info/Pictures

kyle43335 · Jan 18, 2013

here's your sigma pic

gwunter · Jan 18, 2013

Ive seen the massey, not in person. I didnt notice before that he was running an A-pump though. I wonder if he is just running 10mm (or 10.5mm) plungers. Then again he could have something more, but that requires more loot, not just a simple P&B replacement(IIRC).

P.S. There will eventually be one of these mech's on the road someday. hinthint

02BigD · Jan 18, 2013

Hotrodtractor said:
I know this isn't a popular opinion - but I don't really care - if I was building a "street truck" and wanted to go mechanical I would still do a p-pump - install a jackshaft down the center of the valley and drive it using the HPOP gear and then belt drive the pump at the back of the motor using a timing belt and pulleys that can correct for the speed mismatch. Remote mount the turbo(s) somewhere else. After that its all cake as far as I am concerned. LOL Timing it would be a procedure, but doable.

Why the added complication with the extra parts and timing?

Fordguy100 · Jan 18, 2013

Hotrodtractor said:
It most certainly can be done - ANYTHING can be done. You just need to decide if you possess the tools and skills to do it yourself or if you need to have all those changes and details outsourced. I know I could do it - but I also have an engineering degree, lots of tool and die training and experience and a shop full of equipment such as mills and lathes with access to even more. To a guy with out the knowledge and equipment to just dive into it and make it happen - its expensive - and THAT is the hold up as why it hasn't been done.

I know this isn't a popular opinion - but I don't really care - if I was building a "street truck" and wanted to go mechanical I would still do a p-pump - install a jackshaft down the center of the valley and drive it using the HPOP gear and then belt drive the pump at the back of the motor using a timing belt and pulleys that can correct for the speed mismatch. Remote mount the turbo(s) somewhere else. After that its all cake as far as I am concerned. LOL Timing it would be a procedure, but doable.

Here is a Dmax across the pond done that way:

YouTube Video

YouTube Video

When I first saw those pictures/video, I thought it was this tractor:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwFWNReCmck

Watched video till the end, it is that tractor! Looks like they went a different route with the engine!

Morgan@Midwest Diesel & Auto · Jan 18, 2013

Probably got tired of not making real power lol. Switched to indirect injection!
It is pretty cool what they did.

Hotrodtractor · Jan 18, 2013

02BigD said:
Why the added complication with the extra parts and timing?

The extra parts in the valley make it cheaper and easier to construct by using the factory HPOP gear and the front cover. Right now to p-pump it without a belt requires about $6K (Maybe more now - its been forever since I priced it from anywhere) to swap the front cover and gear train around. Installation can be done in truck if wanted without doing more than stripping the valley and pulling the valve covers. (hypothetically anyway). Its exactly why they did it that way on that Duramax - it was "simple" and cheap. It would be a great way for a DIY guy to go for a street truck and keep the costs down.

Hotrodtractor · Jan 18, 2013

Fordguy100 said:
When I first saw those pictures/video, I thought it was this tractor:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwFWNReCmck

Watched video till the end, it is that tractor! Looks like they went a different route with the engine!

Different tractor - same owner - the first video shows them on the truck/trailer together.

02BigD · Jan 18, 2013

Hotrodtractor said:
The extra parts in the valley make it cheaper and easier to construct by using the factory HPOP gear and the front cover. Right now to p-pump it without a belt requires about $6K (Maybe more now - its been forever since I priced it from anywhere) to swap the front cover and gear train around. Installation can be done in truck if wanted without doing more than stripping the valley and pulling the valve covers. (hypothetically anyway). Its exactly why they did it that way on that Duramax - it was "simple" and cheap. It would be a great way for a DIY guy to go for a street truck and keep the costs down.

Understood, and that is a very interesting consideration.

gwunter · Jan 18, 2013

On the subject of gear trains. I have looked into this a bit. It seems that some suppliers offer different options. One company offers to replace all 3 gears(cam, crank, pump) while HMax, I believe, only offers an injection pump gear; which mates with cam gear. I would think that if it were a routine issue of breaking the cam nose off HMax would not offer just a pump gear. Once again with just needing to buy a pump gear, for a street setup, I think the HMax would be the way to go. Running off the HPOP gear would almost create a weak point. Perhaps another crank gear could be utilized, in place of the HPOP gear. This would make going from there to proper pump speed easier math, for a hilljack like me that is. From there one could source a more generic 2to1 raito set of gears. JMHO

Hotrodtractor · Jan 18, 2013

gwunter said:
On the subject of gear trains. I have looked into this a bit. It seems that some suppliers offer different options. One company offers to replace all 3 gears(cam, crank, pump) while HMax, I believe, only offers an injection pump gear; which mates with cam gear. I would think that if it were a routine issue of breaking the cam nose off HMax would not offer just a pump gear. Once again with just needing to buy a pump gear, for a street setup, I think the HMax would be the way to go. Running off the HPOP gear would almost create a weak point. Perhaps another crank gear could be utilized, in place of the HPOP gear. This would make going from there to proper pump speed easier math, for a hilljack like me that is. From there one could source a more generic 2to1 raito set of gears. JMHO

A lot of the places replace all the gears so they can put straight cut gears on it and eliminate some of the thrust loading involved in helical cut gear in a high RPM applications with camshafts and pumps taking serious power to drive.

IDP · Feb 1, 2013

This another option. Little bit of a pain to do, but so far it seems to work.

gwunter · Feb 4, 2013

It will be exciting to see if that holds together!!! I hope it does and someones hard work will pay off. IMHO if I was to utilize the original front cover i would use the original HPOP gear holes. As i said, hope it works.

P.S. that even looks affordable.

Hotrodtractor · Feb 4, 2013

gwunter said:
It will be exciting to see if that holds together!!! I hope it does and someones hard work will pay off. IMHO if I was to utilize the original front cover i would use the original HPOP gear holes. As i said, hope it works.

P.S. that even looks affordable.

You can't do it that way. The HPOP does not spin at the correct speed, so you need a larger gear. Since it needs to be larger (and also because of the size and shape of the pump), the shaft of the pump won't fit through the existing bore in the front cover.

The same size issues are also present if you try to install a HPFP such as a CP3.

fordpulling29 · Feb 4, 2013

sub'd

gwunter · Feb 4, 2013

Hotrodtractor, with all do respect, I did not say I would use the HPOP gear. I said I would use the HPOP gear >>hole<<, just to run a drive shaft out of to make things work from there. I eluded to earlier of using an extra crankshaft gear in place of the HPOP gear as the gear ratios would be easier for a guy like me to work. Did I ever have a spare crank gear lying around to slip down into the front cover to see if it would be possible, no i didnt; but mathematically it would seem easier to use. Then I said to source some other generic gears to get your 2:1 ratio from. JFYI, I may eventually post pics of my, long time coming setup with a PE8P on it. To show evidence of my lack of knowledge of gearing ratios, lets just say i'm still trying to learn to cut metric threads on my old Logan lathe; and it aint working out so good, yet. I even have the transposing gears, LOL.

Hotrodtractor · Feb 4, 2013

gwunter said:
Hotrodtractor, with all do respect, I did not say I would use the HPOP gear. I said I would use the HPOP gear >>hole<<, just to run a drive shaft out of to make things work from there. I eluded to earlier of using an extra crankshaft gear in place of the HPOP gear as the gear ratios would be easier for a guy like me to work. Did I ever have a spare crank gear lying around to slip down into the front cover to see if it would be possible, no i didnt; but mathematically it would seem easier to use. Then I said to source some other generic gears to get your 2:1 ratio from. JFYI, I may eventually post pics of my, long time coming setup with a PE8P on it. To show evidence of my lack of knowledge of gearing ratios, lets just say i'm still trying to learn to cut metric threads on my old Logan lathe; and it aint working out so good, yet. I even have the transposing gears, LOL.

I didn't say that you were using the HPOP gear either.... I said that the gear simply needed to be larger - enough larger that the center of the gear where the pump needs to be is no longer in the hole you want to use in the cover.

If you just want to run a driveshaft out of the hole - that is very similar to the prospect of setting it up like I proposed earlier in the thread and provided evidence of it being done on a Dmax.

Off the top of my head the HPOP gear spins at 80% crank speed and you need the pump to turn at 50% crank speed then you just need a gear set to turn 5/8ths the speed of the HPOP gear to get to 50% of the crank speed. So - you need a gear that is a certain multiple of 5 on the pump and the same multiple time 8 on the HPOP gear shaft. (10:16, 15:24, 20:32, 25:40, 30:48, 35:56, etc....) Of course this only works if the pump really is spinning at 80% crank speed - its been a while, and I would double check that if I was serious.

Charles · Mar 6, 2013

Just for testing, I set my timing to a fixed 20 degrees across the board, with a 0.65ms injection offset to account for delay. It may not have been enough for cold oil, but regardless, this was the result this morning.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbWJ2VhyJ40&feature=youtu.be

Scary thing.... the truck actually drove really well. I was running 450 to 500 degree EGT on flat ground at 50mph.

Meniacal_Mark · Mar 6, 2013

What do you have done to the engine Charles?

Charles · Mar 6, 2013

Meniacal_Mark said:
What do you have done to the engine Charles?

It's probably ~15:1 compression with 400% nozzles as it pertains to the point of the video.

Drove it all day like that. Drives good. Very little smoke.