Need help from some 175/75 injector guys

[peixinho]

So I recently added 75% nozzles to my 175 warren injectors. The truck ran great with 175/stock but now it seems to have a few issues with the 75% nozzles added.

Is it normal to have a slight chug at idle once the truck warms up? Not really a miss but more like a choppy idle? It does not feel like a miss at all and goes away once I give it any throttle

The motor does not like to be lugged (below 1500rpms)... seems to run choppy (did not do that with 175/stock)


I am having egts issues even with new tunes. I tried running a tow tune and the results are all similar.

• Idle = 350 (normal)
• WOT 0-80 = 1400 (normal)
• Cruising at 75mph = 950 (way higher than my normal)
• 1/4 throttle from 0-60 = 1200 (way higher than normal)

Boost levels all seem normal
Back pressure is also normal
With the new tunes it is not overly smokey (like it was with the 175/stock tune)
vgt duty cycle is acting normal
Truck runs and drives great
No weird smoke on startup
No weird smoke while idleing

I know the atomization is not as good on 75% nozzles... but do those numbers sound way too high?

I hate asking tuners for tons of different revisions so I was hoping to figure out a baseline or if something else is wrong before I keep asking for revisions.



.

 

[ODAWG714]

I noticed when ever my oil temps are high The motor sounds a bit different, and when stopping it idles higher I guess till 5mph, maybe you have air in the oil system still?

 

[loboost]

Are the spill ports plugged? I wanna say Jesse plugs anything at or over 175cc...if so..there lies the issue likely

 

[peixinho]

Odawg... when you got your tunes from Matt@gearhead did he have to adjust anything specific for you? Or did it just run perfect on the first try?

 

[MorganY]

Before you go any further, is the truck missing? Injector contribution/balance codes, etc?

 

[peixinho]

Before you go any further, is the truck missing? Injector contribution/balance codes, etc?

I am going to get a contribution test... but it does not feel like it is missing.

I have had many 6.0s with bad injectors and I know what a miss feels like... this feels more choppy. I can usually hear a miss out the exhaust pipe. The sound is more of a consistent chug chug chug chug chug and only when it is fully warmed up.


It only feel choppy at idle and when lugging the motor.


Does not miss one bit while getting on it... cold or hot

 

[04stroker]

I am going to get a contribution test... but it does not feel like it is missing.

I have had many 6.0s with bad injectors and I know what a miss feels like... this feels more choppy. I can usually hear a miss out the exhaust pipe. The sound is more of a consistent chug chug chug chug chug and only when it is fully warmed up.


It only feel choppy at idle and when lugging the motor.


Does not miss one bit while getting on it... cold or hot

Sounds like plugged spill ports.

 

[rollingthunder]

Give jesse a call and get a tune from him. If it is plugged spill ports his tuning will make it idle and decel like a stock truck. Our Eric can tune it the same- both his and Jesse made mine run great

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Bubba88]

I had the exact same issue with mine after install. The truck ran like a raped ape but idled like it had a lope tune on it. I went up to see Bill @ Power Hungry and the graph showed a good bit of fuel down low. He reworked the fuel curve and now it purrs nice and smooth. I also got a few tunes from Jonathan @ No Limit Tuning and his tow tune and race tune both work flawlessly. I was very happy with his tunes as well. The Xtreme X from Eric runs great but couldn't get the idle or decel right.

 

[peixinho]

There is a lot of different things that are probably happening at the same time but here is what I think I found.

I talked with Jesse Warren this morning (great guy and really spent a lot of time going over the problems with me) Mad props to Warren Diesel

He is sending me over a tune to test. He said it should get rid of the choppy idle. Choppy idle is often caused by plugged spill ports (which my injectors have)

He said the missing while lugging on the freeway is often a sign of compression getting past the injectors... whether through improper installation, wrong toruqe, re using copper washers etc... those all could be problems that I caused and is not his fault. Although he said if there is something wrong with the injectors that he will take care of them no questions asked. (he said just send him all the injectors and he would replace all of them)



If the tune does not help then...


I am going to replace injector wire harness (just in case)
Possibly replace FICM
Replace all copper washer and re torque everything.

Then send them all back to Jesse for warranty. He said to just send them first but i feel dishonest.


For the high egts...

I forgot that you I switched turbine to a gt4088 instead of the gt4094va... the 4088 is known for melting and the new nozzles could have melted the turbine. Talking with a couple of guys who have melted turbines describe the same problems as mine with the egts



Thanks for all the help and support from everyone. I will keep you guys updated.

 

[Mdub707]

I wouldn't replace the FICM unless the voltage readings are off. It's easy enough to test with a multi-meter. Waste of money otherwise IMO.

If there's actually a problem with an injector or two or whatever... why would you need to take out all 8 to send them back? That doesn't seem right to me. Or IMO, it seems like Warren isn't very confident if he's just willing to take 8 back and send 8 more out... wtf?

 

[TooMuch03]

So, your injectors were 175cc with plugged spill ports and stock nozzles, and they idled and ran fine, correct? Then you added 75% nozzles to your 175s with plugged spill ports and now it idles rough? And you are being told the spill ports are causing the choppy idle.... hmmm... I am going to go out on a limb here and say that it is more likely the nozzles that are causing the rough idle. Chances are it is fuleing too hard at idle, and if you had your tuner pull fuel at idle, that would take care of your issue. Do you have a FICM tune, or 58v FICM?

 

[peixinho]

I wouldn't replace the FICM unless the voltage readings are off. It's easy enough to test with a multi-meter. Waste of money otherwise IMO.

If there's actually a problem with an injector or two or whatever... why would you need to take out all 8 to send them back? That doesn't seem right to me. Or IMO, it seems like Warren isn't very confident if he's just willing to take 8 back and send 8 more out... wtf?

Very good point... I should have gone more into backstory.


I have had problems with the injectors since i bought them about 6 months ago. Everything seemed to be just barely out of spec... for example

Ficm = 46.5-47v
fuel pump = 39psi WOT (0-100) normal driving = 60
HPO = 3900psi at WOT
ficm wire harness is a little chaffed and fixed it


I have been trying to diagnose this problem with 175/stock injectors. I left the ficm alone and put in a new fuel pump. Thought maybe I was starving the injectors. I paid to buy 4 more injectors because I did a contribution/buzz test and 3 came back low (1 for a spare). Because I was going up to 175/75 when the 4 new injectors came I took out all the injectors, swapped on the nozzles, and re installed the good ones. (i did not want to pull the injectors twice just to add nozzles).


Once the injectors got in the problem was 10 times worse. That is when I called jesse (warren diesel) and he insisted that he would it right. He told me not to waste my time on buying so many other parts first. He told me to try the new tune and if that did not work he said he would get me 8 new injectors asap. That was above and beyond the call of duty because he knows that my ficm is slightly low, i had low fuel pressure for a while, and he knows I added my own nozzles. It was not a heated conversation, it was very pleasant and he walked me through everything that could be wrong.



So back to your questions... It was his idea to do all 8 at once under warranty, if it was his problem he was going to man up. As for the Ficm i have heard that even just barely out of spec can cause problems and I don't like screwing vendors who are going out of their way to help me so I was going to replace anything out of spec.


Anyways hopefully it was just tuning problems but we will see. :ford:

 

[peixinho]

So, your injectors were 175cc with plugged spill ports and stock nozzles, and they idled and ran fine, correct? Then you added 75% nozzles to your 175s with plugged spill ports and now it idles rough? And you are being told the spill ports are causing the choppy idle.... hmmm... I am going to go out on a limb here and say that it is more likely the nozzles that are causing the rough idle. Chances are it is fuleing too hard at idle, and if you had your tuner pull fuel at idle, that would take care of your issue. Do you have a FICM tune, or 58v FICM?

I was thinking the same thing... I always had a slight miss/choppy idle, it just got 10 times worse once I added the nozzles. I had my tuner pull fuel at idle and it did not help. It was not just my idle that was out of wack...

my 70mph cruising 950egts are now 700 with jesses tune


I am supposed to have a 58v swamps ficm but it only read 46.5. No ficm tune

 

[peixinho]

Like I stated I am not 100% convinced the tune fixed it... (could just be a coincidence) but I am going to switch back to the other tune to see if the problem comes back

 

[Bubba88]

I am supposed to have a 58v swamps ficm but it only read 46.5. No ficm tune

I have a 58v from Dave as well but the computer will only show 48v. That is because they have to "fool" the computer so it will not throw a code and cause problems. If you hook a multimeter to the FICM itself it will show you 58v.

That's a pretty big drop in fuel psi during WOT.....have you thought about upgrading your pump or getting something like a raptor lift pump to help keep that flow?

 

[peixinho]

I will eventually add a complete full system

I have been working towards a goal of mine. Making 550hp with just normal bulletproof stuff, exhaust, tuner, injector, turbo, basically just normal stuff plus turbo and injectors on a small budget (no intake, no ported manifold, no w/m, no nitrous, no headers, no intercooler, up pipes, etc) I think with the 175/75 I will have met my goal... We will find out next week on the dyno

Things I hope to do in the near future:
DIY 6.4 Ported intake
reg return possibly with 6.4 as a lift pump
Maybe a bigger vgt turbo 71mm 72mm 73mm???
Built Tranny



Things I have thought about but have not decided:
Larger intercooler
Compounds (with a larger vgt as the big atmospheric turbo... never seen it done)
water/meth
aftermarket air intake ( most likely s&b)



I will eventually start some sort of thread on it

 

[slc dzl]

Why a 6.4 ported intake manifold?

 

[peixinho]

6.4 flows more than 6.0 (many people say a stock 6.4 flow more than a ported 6.0)


oh ya... and you can buy them new for less than $200 brand new (so they are not filled with crap and make it harder to port and weld back together)

 

[loboost]

6.4 flows more than 6.0 (many people say a stock 6.4 flow more than a ported 6.0)


oh ya... and you can buy them new for less than $200 brand new (so they are not filled with crap and make it harder to port and weld back together)

The 6.4 intake Mani isn't a direct bolt on though is it?