Not your Normal No start 6.0...Need some suggestions

[powerstrokedkid87]

Well after a whole lot of testing and digging im about at my end of frustration.

I have a 07 6.0 with a no start Truck had sat for a few months, from what I was told an injector was changed because of the no start but that's all the information I really have on it....did the first normal steps,

no codes on the dash, AE showed cylinder contribution code for #7, and truck would not build more than 250PSI of oil pressure. First thoughts were bad injector and a HP oil leak.

Check Ficm 48.5 volts while cranking, low pressure comes up on the dash motor turned over ok...

Unpluged ICP sensor, still nothing, IPR desired went to 1600

ran an air leak test, had air coming out under both valve covers. Decided to pull the valve covers and go from there.

Pull pass side valve cover found a bent pushrod on #7, replaced the push rod, and rotated the truck over by hand and found that the push rod was biding against the rocker. At that point, decided that the heads had to come off for studs ect, and well inspect pistons ect.

Pulled the heads driver side everything looked good, but oil rail was bone dry.
Pass side had a real bad stuck valve in the head, everything under the head looked good. figured that's where the bent pushrod came from.

heads went to machine shop, we did the normal items, blue spring, egr delete, oil cooler, STC fitting, stand pipes, dummy plugs new IPR screen.
Injectors were out to be tested at MPD everything came back in good shape

put the truck back together, went to crank over, after more that what it should have taken to crank, only ever able to build 50PSI oil pressure.

that point ran air leak test again, still air from both valve covers, and driver side rail still dry....pulled both rails, had all new orings put in, and tested that they hold pressure, replaced the HPOP, IPR, and replaced dummy plugs and stand pipes again for good measure, also inspected the injector orings, everything was good no issues.

reassembled, went to crank...still builds only 50PSI. IPR defaults to 1600 when ICP sensor is unplugged. IPR at .08 KOEO .24 while cranking ficm 48.5

Next we air leak tested, no leaks, after a few seconds of cranking we get low pressure oil on the dash guage, and oil filter housing fills up at the normal pace.

At this point the only component we can think of in the high pressure system is the branch tubes. so we pull the motor out enough to replace the branch tubes.
since the motor was just about out, decided to pull the front cover and inspect it, and the gears as well. No scores or marks anywhere on the Low pressure side, pulled the branch tubes, nothing looked cracked, but replaced them.

Put truck back together again...Now we get no low pressure oil! At this point,

Looking for some suggestions what else to look at, my next move it so pull the oil pan (should have done it when we did the branch tubes!) and inspect the pick up tube and seals, what I don't understand is how we are now not making low pressure oil.

Anyone have some ideas, maybe something I have over looked? maybe something I should go investigate again, I have become very frustrated with this truck, but I am now determined to get it running. The truck overall is in great shape and very clean!

any ideas let me know!

 

[Bustedknuckles]

Well after a whole lot of testing and digging im about at my end of frustration.

I have a 07 6.0 with a no start Truck had sat for a few months, from what I was told an injector was changed because of the no start but that's all the information I really have on it....did the first normal steps,

no codes on the dash, AE showed cylinder contribution code for #7, and truck would not build more than 250PSI of oil pressure. First thoughts were bad injector and a HP oil leak.

Check Ficm 48.5 volts while cranking, low pressure comes up on the dash motor turned over ok...

Unpluged ICP sensor, still nothing, IPR desired went to 1600

ran an air leak test, had air coming out under both valve covers. Decided to pull the valve covers and go from there.

Pull pass side valve cover found a bent pushrod on #7, replaced the push rod, and rotated the truck over by hand and found that the push rod was biding against the rocker. At that point, decided that the heads had to come off for studs ect, and well inspect pistons ect.

Pulled the heads driver side everything looked good, but oil rail was bone dry.
Pass side had a real bad stuck valve in the head, everything under the head looked good. figured that's where the bent pushrod came from.

heads went to machine shop, we did the normal items, blue spring, egr delete, oil cooler, STC fitting, stand pipes, dummy plugs new IPR screen.
Injectors were out to be tested at MPD everything came back in good shape

put the truck back together, went to crank over, after more that what it should have taken to crank, only ever able to build 50PSI oil pressure.

that point ran air leak test again, still air from both valve covers, and driver side rail still dry....pulled both rails, had all new orings put in, and tested that they hold pressure, replaced the HPOP, IPR, and replaced dummy plugs and stand pipes again for good measure, also inspected the injector orings, everything was good no issues.

reassembled, went to crank...still builds only 50PSI. IPR defaults to 1600 when ICP sensor is unplugged. IPR at .08 KOEO .24 while cranking ficm 48.5

Next we air leak tested, no leaks, after a few seconds of cranking we get low pressure oil on the dash guage, and oil filter housing fills up at the normal pace.

At this point the only component we can think of in the high pressure system is the branch tubes. so we pull the motor out enough to replace the branch tubes.
since the motor was just about out, decided to pull the front cover and inspect it, and the gears as well. No scores or marks anywhere on the Low pressure side, pulled the branch tubes, nothing looked cracked, but replaced them.

Put truck back together again...Now we get no low pressure oil! At this point,

Looking for some suggestions what else to look at, my next move it so pull the oil pan (should have done it when we did the branch tubes!) and inspect the pick up tube and seals, what I don't understand is how we are now not making low pressure oil.

Anyone have some ideas, maybe something I have over looked? maybe something I should go investigate again, I have become very frustrated with this truck, but I am now determined to get it running. The truck overall is in great shape and very clean!

any ideas let me know!

Make sure the spring isnt broken on the pressure relief valve on the front cover. I feel your pain man. The excursion I bought was a nightmare to diagnose and fix to, runs like a top now though!

 

[powerstrokedkid87]

Make sure the spring isnt broken on the pressure relief valve on the front cover. I feel your pain man. The excursion I bought was a nightmare to diagnose and fix to, runs like a top now though!

I got the truck back between the posts today, My thought is something on the low pressure side isn't keeping up enough with the high pressure side. Truck will build to 35-40 quick, then take a lot of continuous cranking to get back to 50...

I have a new regulator and lp rebuild sitting at the shop waiting for me to get down there today. At this point I just don't want to start throwing parts at it, but seems like we have thrown just about everything at it.

 

[Bustedknuckles]

I got the truck back between the posts today, My thought is something on the low pressure side isn't keeping up enough with the high pressure side. Truck will build to 35-40 quick, then take a lot of continuous cranking to get back to 50...

I have a new regulator and lp rebuild sitting at the shop waiting for me to get down there today. At this point I just don't want to start throwing parts at it, but seems like we have thrown just about everything at it.

Ok, I will be following this! Put some grease in the new LPO pump to help prime. As a tech there is nothing more frustrating than something that doesnt work when everything checks out. I have a 7.3 in the bay right now with a rough/miss idle I just want to burn.

 

[suprdzlduty]

I went through a similar deal with a truck...I would get 300 psi on the hpo side. Changed pumps etc...truck had sat for a long time also...no matter what I did hpo numbers never changed. I was a wits end, swapped out the pcm and boom, ran like a new one. the truck I had was a 07 also.

 

[powerstrokedkid87]

Heres an update on this one...

Pulled the cab off the truck yesterday, pulled the valve covers just to check everything, all looked good, pulled the oil pan and bed plate, pickup tube gaskets, and seals all looked good quick visual inspect of bottom end everything looked perfect. Pulled the fan and LPOP cover, gears looked fine, no wear marks or scores, pulled regulator, looked clean no build up. At this point the only thing left is replacing the actual front cover. Going to put one on today, put the truck back together, see if we make LP oil..

 

[Bustedknuckles]

Check the galley plugs in the block front and rear to make sure one didnt pop out.

 

[powerstrokedkid87]

Here's an update.... New front cover I have low pressure oil pack but still no high pressure oil. Working on getting a PCM to test....

Any other suggestions ..... I'm Gona start trying the electrical system next.... Everything in the oil system is good w no leaks

 

[powerstrokedkid87]

last night swapped the PCM on from this truck to another truck, other truck fired right up....that eliminates the PMC causing the issue...

Next option is probe testing the harness seeing if I can find a short somewhere.....

 

[suprdzlduty]

When testing the hpo system do you energize the ipr by scanner or manually off the battery? If manually could there be a break in the ipr harness? But if by scanner that would rule that out I would assume...

 

[webb06]

Here's an update.... New front cover I have low pressure oil pack but still no high pressure oil. Working on getting a PCM to test....

Any other suggestions ..... I'm Gona start trying the electrical system next.... Everything in the oil system is good w no leaks

Sounds like you just about have a completely new engine.

What's icp getting up to when cranking?

 

[powerstrokedkid87]

Sounds like you just about have a completely new engine.

What's icp getting up to when cranking?

well made some good progress- not sure if the new lpop caused the issue, but we went from no leaks under the valve covers to a leak in #2 injector.

replaced number 2, and now the truck finally builds oil pressure....

it slowly builds to 500 then after some more cranking it climbs to 14-1450 batteries keep draining very quick, so working on getting some new batteries, and most likely gona pull the IPR out and check the screen....

making progress....but still hasn't fired yet...sounds like it wants to!

 

[powerstrokedkid87]

When testing the hpo system do you energize the ipr by scanner or manually off the battery? If manually could there be a break in the ipr harness? But if by scanner that would rule that out I would assume...

I always go direct to the solenoid.

we probed the harness and check voltages, didn't find any chaffing. After swapping the injector that I found the leak in (top o-ring came apart...not sure how since these were all refreshed injectors)

 

[Gary]

Well after a whole lot of testing and digging im about at my end of frustration.

I have a 07 6.0 with a no start Truck had sat for a few months, from what I was told an injector was changed because of the no start but that's all the information I really have on it....did the first normal steps,

about the only way a injector will cause a no start is if the top seal is blown out, and usually it will still start cold

no codes on the dash, AE showed cylinder contribution code for #7, and truck would not build more than 250PSI of oil pressure. First thoughts were bad injector and a HP oil leak.

With only 250 PSI of ICP this is a problem

Check Ficm 48.5 volts while cranking, low pressure comes up on the dash motor turned over ok...

I have seen a bad FICM that caused a "no-start" and it had all the correct voltage on the scanner PID's

Unpluged ICP sensor, still nothing, IPR desired went to 1600

when you unplug the ICP sensor the PCM can't read the actual PSI (you unplugged it) so that 1600 PSI is just a default the PCM is substituting

ran an air leak test, had air coming out under both valve covers. Decided to pull the valve covers and go from there.

This sounds like your problem, did you energize the IPR to close it?

Pull pass side valve cover found a bent pushrod on #7, replaced the push rod, and rotated the truck over by hand and found that the push rod was biding against the rocker. At that point, decided that the heads had to come off for studs ect, and well inspect pistons ect.

Did use either? that is another possibility for the bent push rod

Pulled the heads driver side everything looked good, but oil rail was bone dry.
Pass side had a real bad stuck valve in the head, everything under the head looked good. figured that's where the bent pushrod came from.

If you had 250 PSI of ICP the rail should be full of oil (something doesn't sound right) the stuck valve is because it was probably bent, because the piston hit it.

heads went to machine shop, we did the normal items, blue spring, egr delete, oil cooler, STC fitting, stand pipes, dummy plugs new IPR screen.
Injectors were out to be tested at MPD everything came back in good shape

I'd like to know HOW they bench test the injectors.

put the truck back together, went to crank over, after more that what it should have taken to crank, only ever able to build 50PSI oil pressure.
Is that 50 PSI of ICP? is so you said you had 250 PSI of ICP before, are you sure that you are reading it correctly? if you are you created a new problem.

that point ran air leak test again, still air from both valve covers, and driver side rail still dry....pulled both rails, had all new orings put in, and tested that they hold pressure, replaced the HPOP, IPR, and replaced dummy plugs and stand pipes again for good measure, also inspected the injector orings, everything was good no issues.
That sounds like your IPR is wear the air is coming from. Are you energizing the IPR to close, if so maybe it has a piece of debris in it and it doesn't seal.

reassembled, went to crank...still builds only 50PSI. IPR defaults to 1600 when ICP sensor is unplugged. IPR at .08 KOEO .24 while cranking ficm 48.5


Next we air leak tested, no leaks, after a few seconds of cranking we get low pressure oil on the dash guage, and oil filter housing fills up at the normal pace.
Check the button that the oil filter contacts, make sure it there and not broken.
If the oil filter is not correctly contacting that button it will dump oil, (causing a no-start)

At this point the only component we can think of in the high pressure system is the branch tubes. so we pull the motor out enough to replace the branch tubes.

since the motor was just about out, decided to pull the front cover and inspect it, and the gears as well. No scores or marks anywhere on the Low pressure side, pulled the branch tubes, nothing looked cracked, but replaced them.

Put truck back together again...Now we get no low pressure oil! At this point,

Looking for some suggestions what else to look at, my next move it so pull the oil pan (should have done it when we did the branch tubes!) and inspect the pick up tube and seals, what I don't understand is how we are now not making low pressure oil.
Again look in the oil filter housing, sound like something is not right in there, like wrong oil filter/cap combination, button in the bottom.

Anyone have some ideas, maybe something I have over looked? maybe something I should go investigate again, I have become very frustrated with this truck, but I am now determined to get it running. The truck overall is in great shape and very clean!

any ideas let me know!

I hope my response shows up in red, I tried to go though your post and give you some ideas of what to look for. These engines really aren't to difficult to figure out. But it sounds like some type of HPO problem.
A couple other thing to check
Any codes showing up?
Does it have "sync"
What is your fuel pressure?

I hope something here can help you. Good Luck with it.

 

[powerstrokedkid87]

I hope my response shows up in red, I tried to go though your post and give you some ideas of what to look for. These engines really aren't to difficult to figure out. But it sounds like some type of HPO problem.
A couple other thing to check
Any codes showing up?
Does it have "sync"
What is your fuel pressure?

I hope something here can help you. Good Luck with it.

we have worked on a lot of 6.0s, this one has just had me stumped because it has been throwing curves at us. Every issue we fix, causes another.

At this point, we have all the High pressure and low pressure oil issues resolved, and the truck builds oil pressure.

cam and crank are in sync

fuel pressure is good (bubble test and actual guage 55psi)

ficm is good, pcm is good. ect.

The two issues that we have now- The batteries draw down very quickly with only a few seconds of cranking (batteries were brand new but will be getting 2 new ones)

and icp while cranking goes up to 14-1450psi (its a slow climb to that number, hovers around 5-600 for a few seconds while cranking then climbs)-this makes me think ipr screen is clogged, the truck hasn't run in a long time, so who knows what junk may still be in the motor, might have clogged the screen now that we are making oil

I have a faint faint bit of smoke from the exhaust equivalent to blowing out a match

and soon as the oil psi hits 5-600 tries to kick over a few times, but doesn't fire.

battery voltage drops to 8.5-9V and Rpm stay around 160 till the batteries die.

so were still chasing issues, but make some progress on is.

 

[Bustedknuckles]

Get some new batteries in it and put a amp clamp on the injector wires to make sure the ficm is actually firing them. I had one one time where every single thing checked out but the FICM just wasn't firing the injectors for some odd reason put a new ficm in and it started right up. Diesels only take two things to run, fuel and compression. Sounds like you have fuel, time to check compression!

 

[Bustedknuckles]

Also it sounds like it's cranking too slow for sure hit it with some ether my excursion that wouldn't start that's all it was showing for cranking put a new crank sensor in and it fired right up. I didn't have ficm sync however. Voltage drop test the starter wire too.

 

[Gary]

^^^ Like he says about the batteries, I never thought about using a amp clamp, I'll have to try that.

When the ICP jumps from 500-600 to 1400+ I think that the PCM is actually substituting the default setting and your really not getting that much ICP, I'm not 100% on that.... but that's what I think is going on.

Have you tried a know good FICM?

 

[powerstrokedkid87]

^^^ Like he says about the batteries, I never thought about using a amp clamp, I'll have to try that.

When the ICP jumps from 500-600 to 1400+ I think that the PCM is actually substituting the default setting and your really not getting that much ICP, I'm not 100% on that.... but that's what I think is going on.

Have you tried a know good FICM?

tried a good ficm off a running truck, swapped this pcm to a good running truck.

soon as the oil psi gets to around 5-600 it will kick like its trying to start but that's then icp jumps to 1400

 

[powerstrokedkid87]

only codes I get are egr codes (removed with no tuner put in yet)
Air intake sensor code (intake if off the truck at the moment)
glow plug #4 code