On the fence

[Dieselboy.]

Alright guys, after recently picking up a Gen3, which was really the big issue holding me back injector wise and going larger. (big oil) being solved.

Right now Nate has my 250/200s and I was just gonna bump em to a 350/200 with fuel side mods. But in lew it seems like a fair chunk of change for a mild increase.
After a fairly long convo with a certain person in elkton MD (Martyoke and being told to basically man up LOL He has me considering going to a larger nozzle.

However after reading countless threads Im not sure if a 400% nozzle is right for me, hence the on the fence.

After digging through multiple threads on PSN and finding a few guys with stock forged rods and stock HGs it has me worried that 400/400s will be too much. (keep in mind if I go 400/400s I will be upping the comp wheel to an S475, mine is the smaller 83mm exhaust wheel) Non wastegated. Which comes into play. And Im worried that this is alot more then she can handle.

So Ive even considered a 300% nozzle. As Ive always thought that for what I want it could be "just right" Not to Hot (400s) Not to Cold (200s). They seem to me like a happy medium between the two. But I cant find enough info on them.

So basically my options overall are
Go with a 350/200 with fuel side mods (gen3 and non wastegated s471) and just add nitrous until I crack 11s. (as well as possibly stepping up to the s475)

Go big and drop in 400/400s (gen3 and non wastegated S475) and run fuel only, and maybe just some water to drop EGTs at the track.

Or the same setup as above with a 300% nozzle.

Im looking for the overall best setup for me and am having a difficult time deciding because Ive done things over a few times by upgrading slowly and dont wanna pay for 350/200s and in 6 months redo it again to a 400/400. And being said I want it DONE for may as I have live tuning with Cale scheduled. So Im trying to get this all buttoned up for that.

Truck will be a DD/toy that I want in the 11s the safest way possible for what I need. Fuel only or nitrous. Whether its 11.99 or 11.0 Id be happy just to see 11s.

Maybe the odd tow now and down the road I may pickup a toy. IE small boat, 4x4 buggy or mustang etc. All under 7k in weight. And keep in mind driveability. Its all what you consider reasonable. I am considering 400/400s and an s475 so I already understand the issues and driving around the truck. And am fully prepared for this. Live tuning this setup will be a substantial benefit IMHO.:hammer:

So guys chime in. Im all ears.

Thanks

 

[PowerstrokeJunkie]

youre going to need a wastegate with any of the above mentioned setups if you want to keep your turbo happy. You say the turbine wheel is 83mm, that's the inducer the larger diameter, the exducer you see looking in the turbine outlet is actually 75mm.

 

[Dieselboy.]

I knew being cheap on that one when I ordered my T4 kit was gonna bite me in the a$$.

You think even with the 400/300s it would be to much ?

Right now I see 46psi boost and 54psi BP. The only combos I see causing a problem would be the 400/400s
And the shot of nitrous ?

 

[Derek@Vision Diesel]

It depends who you have tuning it, the 400% nozzle is going to need to be live tuned in my opinion. I believe your going to Spokane to have cale do it, if that is the case go with the 400%....reading old threads wont help you much because todays tuning is so much more refined. A 400% used to be competition use only, but that has changed.

Go 400/400 and with a wastegated s400 and call it a day...

 

[Dieselboy.]

It depends who you have tuning it, the 400% nozzle is going to need to be live tuned in my opinion. I believe your going to Spokane to have cale do it, if that is the case go with the 400%....reading old threads wont help you much because todays tuning is so much more refined. A 400% used to be competition use only, but that has changed.

Go 400/400 and with a wastegated s400 and call it a day...

Yes Cale is booked in May. And the reason Ive considered the jump. Because live tuning is around the corner.

Hmm, look like a wastegate might be in order. I just had the motor on the stand too:fustrate:

Kris, Im looking for guys like you and your opinion seeing as you have run 400s.

 

[Derek@Vision Diesel]

Yes Cale is booked in May. And the reason Ive considered the jump. Because live tuning is around the corner.

Hmm, look like a wastegate might be in order. I just had the motor on the stand too:fustrate:

Kris, Im looking for guys like you and your opinion seeing as you have run 400s.

You dont have to wastegate it now, tuning can be your best friend. Just save up and know it needs to be done eventually to save the turbo.

Go 400/400 and get it live tuned, then throw the gate on when you find time

 

[Dieselboy.]

That could be the best bet. Any opinions on the 300% nozzle ?

And in a sense wouldnt it be better to have the gate on for the live tuning to have it dialed perfectly.

And 400s means no fancy nitrous switches and gauge LOL

 

[Derek@Vision Diesel]

That could be the best bet. Any opinions on the 300% nozzle ?

And in a sense wouldnt it be better to have the gate on for the live tuning to have it dialed perfectly.

And 400s means no fancy nitrous switches and gauge LOL

with 400s i would suggest more nitrous, liquid turbo is needed to burn all that. But then again you are working with rods that wouldnt appreciate that.

It would be ideal to have it gated, but if you cant swing both before time comes, it would make more sense to have injectors in

 

[Marty]

Gate your 71 with the 200 nozzle and you'll be low 12s on fuel. Add some nitrous and you'll have 11s.

Or

Make your turbo a 75 add a gate and run 400 nozzles and that should roll 11s on fuel.

 

[PowerstrokeJunkie]

I didn't have a good set of injectors when I tried to get it live tuned, so my opinion on them may be flawed, plus I was running these back in 2009 and the tuning has come a long way. To put it simply, 400% nozzles on a hot tune are just phucking huge and 'too much' for any streetable single turbo, if I were running that size of a nozzle I would probably have two turbos, you dont want it to be grossly overfueled to the point where you create so much heat you melt stuff. Btdt and it's not fun, it doesn't matter if you're running a 75mm or 80 or anything, you wont even think about cleaning up the smoke with a 400% nozzle, and if you do manage to spray enough to clean up the smoke on a hot tune, you'll be well over 900hp, and you arent going to maintain that power level long with your engine's setup. a single turbo would be better suited for 200% nozzled injector in my opinion. How greedy do you want to get with power; do you have a bunch of money set aside to fix whatever you break? You WILL be breaking stuff when you jump up to the next power level. I got so sick of the injectors being wayyy to big for the amount of air I used to run, that I would much rather run a setup that works perfectly together and not have any of the issues that I had that got me fed up with chasing power. Talk to any of the people who make over 700 on fuel and ask them how much behind the scenes work and money is involved.

Im very happy with my smoke free, cool running, all purpose 500hp setup.

 

[Derek@Vision Diesel]

I didn't have a good set of injectors when I tried to get it live tuned, so my opinion on them may be flawed, plus I was running these back in 2009 and the tuning has come a long way. To put it simply, 400% nozzles on a hot tune are just phucking huge and 'too much' for any streetable single turbo, if I were running that size of a nozzle I would probably have two turbos, you dont want it to be grossly overfueled to the point where you create so much heat you melt stuff. Btdt and it's not fun, it doesn't matter if you're running a 75mm or 80 or anything, you wont even think about cleaning up the smoke with a 400% nozzle, and if you do manage to spray enough to clean up the smoke on a hot tune, you'll be well over 900hp, and you arent going to maintain that power level long with your engine's setup. a single turbo would be better suited for 200% nozzled injector in my opinion. How greedy do you want to get with power; do you have a bunch of money set aside to fix whatever you break? You WILL be breaking stuff when you jump up to the next power level. I got so sick of the injectors being wayyy to big for the amount of air I used to run, that I would much rather run a setup that works perfectly together and not have any of the issues that I had that got me fed up with chasing power. Talk to any of the people who make over 700 on fuel and ask them how much behind the scenes work and money is involved.

Im very happy with my smoke free, cool running, all purpose 500hp setup.

Very well said, especially on a truck that isnt dedicated competition use only.

Lots of extra time spent keeping a 600+ hp 7.3 running leak/problem free daily

 

[powerstrokenstang]

Gonna side w powerstrokejunkie on this. 400's are pretty good size. i am cleaning up somewhat decent but there is alot of work thats went into my setup to do it, heads, cam, tuning and much more. I ran an 8.05 1/8th w 240/200's and a stock h2e. I would do fuel mods and stay w/ a 200% or even eh them a lil for what you want.

 

[Marty]

Just a tit bit, I can use cruise control. And produce less smoke then a stock chipped truck. I believe its a pmt pcm thing. I have not had the same luck with 02-03 trucks and Obs trucks.

However I think the best idea is to keep the 200s and gate your charger.

 

[Dieselboy.]

Hmm, Any input Marty from Todds 300% nozzles.

To be honest Id rather stray away from nitrous.

Kris you answered quite a few dark spots for me, the DD (hwy) aspect was my biggest concern. Im gonna have a chat with Nate. Seems some guys live DD with the 400s and some guys cant stand it.
This is where my problem lies as I cant decide. Im constantly torn between the pros and cons of each injector.

 

[Marty]

The 300% on his OBS were smoking more then my 400's. OBS tuning?

Just so you know this was taken today:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HbNX9SQchT0&list=UUOT_BBA4Rme_FRbty9oXELQ&index=1&feature=plcp


Pretty sure that's an acceptable amount of smoke and that was not pussy footing it around. That was 0-60 in both spurts.

EGTS were ~850* at most. This is with just over-the-internet tuning from Swamps... nothing "custom" about it for my truck.

Went over the scrap yard scaled at just under ~12k lbs. Yes it's not a whole lot but the fact that unloaded driving or even pulling 4 or 6k lbs will not be bad at sea level. At elevation I'm sure it's a much different story. I'm tempted to toss a truck up on the trailer and run it down the road. If I wasn't so busy I would today.

 

[Dieselboy.]

Those are 400s :jawdrop:

Now you did say the 02-03 PCMs were a little trickier in the tuning aspect ?

But that is clean ! My 250s smoke more then that towing.

 

[Marty]

Yes 400/400's with regular 400n tunes from swamps. PMT style tunes.

You definitely have to draw out the RPM's but some towing is do-able at sea level. I'm going to load up a truck sometime soon and see how things are.

 

[Durp durp]

Very well said, especially on a truck that isnt dedicated competition use only.

Lots of extra time spent keeping a 600+ hp 7.3 running leak/problem free daily

And you would know this, how?

I personally would not run 400's on a street truck. I think that with a reg cab truck you can make enough hp with 200's and have a much more versatile setup. I dislike my 400's enough that I'm considering a nozzle swap back to 200's. The truck runs good but smokes like a train if your in the throttle much at all. Lack of air is not the problem either.

 

[blackbetty13]

not trying to be the downer here but forged rods give out north of 650 so be cautious of that too thats the same reason im not going bigger curently

 

[Dieselboy.]

And you would know this, how?

I personally would not run 400's on a street truck. I think that with a reg cab truck you can make enough hp with 200's and have a much more versatile setup. I dislike my 400's enough that I'm considering a nozzle swap back to 200's. The truck runs good but smokes like a train if your in the throttle much at all. Lack of air is not the problem either.

His old 7.3 did 616/1258 with 300/200s and 72mm charger.

Well I valid your point, Martys vid is a testament that it is all in the tuning.

Do you mind sharing more info on your build list ? Whose sticks ? Turbo and tuning ?