s475/84 400/400's boost/drive

[Dustball8504]

Mass air flow has more to do with the air filter than boost.

Stock 6.4s make 50 psi and don't pull the minder in.

My truck with a 68mm single made 42 psi with no issues

I ran a 76mm precision and the first time I hit 30 psi it sucked the minder in tight as ***

Tuned trucks will on the stock air filter. My truck makes 55.5psi on the stock chargers and batmo and won't pull the AFE in. How much air do you have to move before it'll do it?

 

[Marty]

Hooray for you!! Just because you have not experienced something does not make it impossible, or something mystical. It happens, happens to guys with big singles and twins. I believe Dustin crushed a filter with his last setup, Garrett ate one, I have. It happens. Consider your self luky?? Who cares really. What remains is that i honestly believe that filter cannot flow enough air to support that turbo's optimal pressure ratio. That is what this has turned into LOL

Somewhere I have the flow rates for the Tymar style intake. I'll look and see if I can find them tonight

Never said it was impossible. Just curious as to why I've never experienced the same thing. Big difference between an S475 and a 38r.

I can't remember but I'm pretty sure I ran fuel only times the same whether or not the filter was on there. I know I didn't see much difference in boost or egt when at the track. I'll re-do each test without a filter.

 

[PowerstrokeJunkie]

A more restrictive filter media will essentially make the truck seem like it is running at higher elevation, less atmospheric pressure. The human cannot tell normal atmospheric pressure simply because that is our environment, however the turbo will be a good deal less efficient with 11psi atmospheric pressur on the inlet side of the wheel. Do the calculations of having 75psi total boost(including atmospheric pressure) with 11psi on the inlet, and with 14 psi. The pressure ratio is significantly higher. You may not sense it but that compressor is working ALOT harder than it should with that paper filter

 

[Dzchey21]

Tuned trucks will on the stock air filter. My truck makes 55.5psi on the stock chargers and batmo and won't pull the AFE in. How much air do you have to move before it'll do it?

Sorry
My idea of a stock 6.4 is a tuner/exhaust/intake trucks

I have seen tow.powers suck in aftermarket intakes. But i have seen s&b intakes handle 75mm turbos... so it all depends.

A more restrictive filter media will essentially make the truck seem like it is running at higher elevation, less atmospheric pressure. The human cannot tell normal atmospheric pressure simply because that is our environment, however the turbo will be a good deal less efficient with 11psi atmospheric pressur on the inlet side of the wheel. Do the calculations of having 75psi total boost(including atmospheric pressure) with 11psi on the inlet, and with 14 psi. The pressure ratio is significantly higher. You may not sense it but that compressor is working ALOT harder than it should with that paper filter

Exactly... we found a truck here that was pulling down to about 10.9 psi absolute
That's about like living at 10000 feet.

As some know and others don't alttidue is huge in.the spool up and power game.

For example stock Turbo trucks that are tuned generally run a full second slower up here than at sea level and dyno almost 100 HP lowet. So that being said a truck running a Turbo set up that's on the edge of the comp map it makes a huge difference.

Now a truck running stock fuel and say high powers which runs a 76 mm billet atmosphere turbo will run damn near the same here (6000) feet as sea level... take that same truck and add fuel... the gap begins to spread again.

 

[Dustball8504]

Sorry
My idea of a stock 6.4 is a tuner/exhaust/intake trucks

I knew what you meant, I just didn't want it to be misleading that people looking to tune one don't need an aftermarket intake.

Is there any aftermarket drop in brand that'll support more air than the other? Such as has anyone tested say an AFE vs S&B?

 

[Dzchey21]

I knew what you meant, I just didn't want it to be misleading that people looking to tune one don't need an aftermarket intake.

Is there any aftermarket drop in brand that'll support more air than the other? Such as has anyone tested say an AFE vs S&B?

No I understand I.should have clarified.

Not sure anyone has tried

 

[lowbedriver]

Someone,I think it was TARM had a flow chart for a 6637/donaldson/afe/afe2 but I dont remember if it included s&b.winner was afe2 iirc

 

[Marty]

S465 with 6637 filter.

Drilled/tapped intake.
Installed a line that runs to map sensor.
E99 Auto
Swamps 250/100’s
Swamps Gen3
Swamps Tuning
Studs/Springs/PushRods
S465/Irate T4
Aeromotive Fuel System
LPoil Gauge, Boost/EGT/Trans
1996 Engine

43 psig boost
50 something backpressure. It was about the same as before.

I am at sea level.

View attachment 3198

14.58 - 14.13 = 0.45 psiA difference.



This was most I could "spike" it to come down. If you don't force a downshift and go through the gears like you would at the track or regular driving then you see less then a .2 psiA difference.

 

[Marty]

I will be doing the same test on my truck here in a couple of days. I'm sure the drop will be more significant, but I'm pretty certain that a .2 psiA drop is irrelevant.

 

[PowerstrokeJunkie]

Interesting. So the map sensor was seeing only the absolute pressure at the intake side of the filter? I guess swamps doesnt use the map sensor in it's tuning tables? oops :shrug:

 

[Marty]

 

[Dzchey21]

if i remember right donaldson says .5-.2 is acceptable, let me verify tho

 

[Dieselboy.]

Marty, you mind posting up what you used and how you tied it into the MAP sensor ?

Im curious as to what mine is doing.

 

[Marty]

see the picture? That gray line runs over to the map sensor.

 

[Hotrodtractor]

Marty, you mind posting up what you used and how you tied it into the MAP sensor ?

Im curious as to what mine is doing.

The only way you can measure this using the map sensor is if your tuning is ignoring the map sensor - I'm pretty sure Matt's tunes always use the map - I can't speak unilaterally for Swamp's - but some of their tunes do not use the map as is evidence by Marty being able to use the map sensor to measure this pressure drop.

 

[Marty]

If you need to, you can use the EBPS as it also reads in absolute values.

Once again, make sure your tuner does not use those values to alter the tuning.

I can't imagine that many still are based on the fact out of ~250 or so trucks that's come though here the majority have been 7.3's and I can't even remember more then a couple whose EBPS was actually reading atmospheric pressure at idle, let alone an accurate number while driving.

You might have the same problem, might not. You won't know until you measure it.

 

[907DAVE]

I can't imagine that many still are based on the fact out of ~250 or so trucks that's come though here the majority have been 7.3's and I can't even remember more then a couple whose EBPS was actually reading atmospheric pressure at idle, let alone an accurate number while driving.

You might have the same problem, might not. You won't know until you measure it.

Not sure I follow what you are getting at here.

 

[Marty]

If your tuner uses the map sensor in tuning then you could use the ebps. Make sure your tuner doesn't use that either. I don't think many tuners do because they very rarely are working properly. So if you're going to use it, make sure yours is working properly before using it.

When i send messages from my phone they get a little jumbled up sometimes.

 

[907DAVE]

If your tuner uses the map sensor in tuning then you could use the ebps. Make sure your tuner doesn't use that either. I don't think many tuners do because they very rarely are working properly. So if you're going to use it, make sure yours is working properly before using it.

When i send messages from my phone they get a little jumbled up sometimes.

Yikes!

I am not gonna touch this one...lol.

 

[Marty]

No, please do.

I had people tell me that the 6637 filter won't work because you'll suck it in or that it has serious atmospheric pressure drops inside the intake that would cause damage to the turbo. Pretty sure that on an S465 creating 43 psi of boost, it is more then adequate. Unless there is something wrong with my testing methods.

DZChevy uses his dasdaq wired to a sensor on the intake. So I did the same thing, using the Map sensor since it reads in absolute values. The EBPS also reads in absolute values so unless I am overlooking something, I assume it would work.

Would it not?

As for the ebps working properly or not, good luck. I've had sensors that when you turn the key on read 36 psiA. Cleaning the tube, the pass through and also the actual sensor sometimes works but not always.


So, please tell us why it won't work or you shouldn't use it. I never have and this was the first time I ever used the MAP sensor in this configuration as well. This thread was created to have real world data posted to help weed out erroneous information. So go ahead and respond.