Wastegate regulator recommendations

madman1234509 · Jan 5, 2015

It was just a reference to a ball and spring style regulator. What I use looks just like what you pictured, it is a variable orifice regulator, and it does not work. Can you send me a link to what you use? If it bleeds off air to maintain a set downstream pressure, then it should work. Otherwise I don't see how you get any adjustability out of it except limiting the time it takes to equalize pressure on both sides, which would be minimal. You'll still end up receiving whatever boost you are making to the top of the gate. Also, its why I don't see how anyone kits have any "adjustability" except by interchanging or adding/subtracting springs. The gate is going to stay shut unless back pressure overcomes the boost pressure and spring rate that is being applied. Which basically will keep you at 1:1 or close to it if you think about it.

Ultimately that's a good thing, but that's not what I'm trying to accomplish. I want to open my gates at a certain pressure once the small one is lit, to get the big one going. Also, to keep the small turbo making a little more then 1/2 the boost pressure. If they do that I'm not concerned with back pressure, because it'll never make ridiculous back pressure numbers due to the size of the big turbine housing and AR

On edit, I see you mentioned Hallman, which I see a lot of people mention over on yellow bullet. From what I've seen and what their site says they don't have an air bleed style controller.

Morgan@Midwest Diesel & Auto · Jan 5, 2015

I think your missing how this all works. Your not opening the gate. Your holding it closed until it reaches a desired bp. Your not aclually controlling boost, your controlling bp which in turn controls boost.

I think that you are WAY over thinking all of this. And a I can tell you EVERY wastegate I've ever used has had this style regulator. The only other one I have is the hallman and I don't like it.

The two port diaphragm style uses reference from both sides. Once the pressure on the outlet side reaches a certain point it will push the diaphragm closed so that pressure will not go any higher. When outlet pressure falls the valve opens and let's more pressure in. It's not a new concept. There are tons of applications out there, millions even that use that style of regulator. How do you think you regulate the air from an air compressor? Same thing. It doesn't creep.

I'm not being rude. But your theory or how your looking at this is wrong. Which is probably why you have problems setting your truck to work correctly.

Wastegate limits ebp. That is all. You can run a wastgate off all spring if you want. Or you can run it 75% springs and 25% off regulated air for fine adjustment. Which is what we do. On a diesel application you do not need to have boost reference to help open the gate, there is plenty of ebp to open it when it needs to be opened.

Morgan@Midwest Diesel & Auto · Jan 5, 2015

Yes the hallman has an air bleed.

Please understand I'm not arguing just trying to help.

madman1234509 · Jan 5, 2015

Hallmans site does not list an air bleed style regulator...:

Q:Is your boost controller a bleeder valve?

A: No. A bleeder valve type controller creates a leak in the line running to the wastegate. The larger the leak the more boost you get, but the larger the leak the more turbo lag you will get as well. Our kit blocks the signal before the wastegate until the internal spring pressure of the valve is overcome. At this point the signal can reach the wastegate and open it. Since the internal spring pressure is adjustable, you can increase boost. Since there is no leak with this system the turbo will spool as quick as it can for its size..
^^ straight off of their site.

Can I get a link to the regulator you use? Because the ones I've been using aren't working as you describe. They are working just as I've stated. And it's not because I don't know how to use one, or can't set it up right. And the chances that I've gotten my hands on all faulty regulators is slim. It can be on an air hose, and soon as you plug the hose, the pressure on the gauge builds to whatever the system pressure is, because its only an orifice style regulator. If your diaphragm closes off the orifice so it will only allow X pressure in then fine, that, in theory, should work. But that's not what's going on with the regulators I have.

Morgan@Midwest Diesel & Auto · Jan 5, 2015

Wayne. Lmao. I physically have a hallman. Please, how can you argue with that? I'll send a picture of the air bleed......

Will you quit using sh*t you read on the internet and LISTEN to someone who know what the f*ck they are talking about. I've set the gates on lots and lots of single and compound turbo set ups. I've got a pretty good grasp on my knowledge.

I don't have a link that's just a picture I found on Google.

sootie · Jan 5, 2015

hey madman-i used just an ordinary regulator from the hardware store and it works fine. leave the side port open on the gate, run regulated boost to the top and back pressure in the bottom using the heaviest spring combination you have. there is more than enough drive pressure to open the gate so you let just enough boost thru to to keep it closed until ebp gets to your desired XXpsi. when it opens, it will drop epb (thus dropping boost) and all things are kept in a safe range.

its very simple really-but i have a very simple setup also.

madman1234509 · Jan 5, 2015

And that was a quote that Iiterally took off their site. Unless it's was out dated Idk what to tell you.

Sootie, I've used hardware store regulators, and it sounds like its doing exactly what I described above. It doesn't relieve back pressure until back pressure climbs higher than boost, because you're allowing full boost to the top of the gate. The gate will not open until back pressure overcomes your total boost, no matter how much you turn your regulator because the gate acts as a dead head and pressure equalized on both sides of the orifice. Unless you're using one that completely closes off like Morgan states he's using it probably isn't working properly.

madman1234509 · Jan 5, 2015

http://www.hallmanboostcontroller.com/faq.html

Here is a link to the q&a on their site that states they dont make a bleeder style valve.

http://www.hallmanboostcontroller.com/applic.html
Here's a link to their products page. None listed are bleeder style. And they all essentially work the same way, just the internals are different on the two, and you can mount one in the cab.

I'm not trying to argue with you either Morgan. I'm just trying to make sense of the theories that I've read, and why I'm not having success with the regulators I have. If you're using a different style then me, then maybe that explains everything. But a simple ball and spring or variable orifice regulator does not work.

Jonnydime · Jan 5, 2015

White_monster said:
Your wrong.

I'm going to agree with this ^^. Do the regulators you have release pressure when you lower the regulated side? The whole purpose of a regulator is to regulate pressure not flow. A variable orifice will only regulate flow not pressure. A ball a check works like a regulator for a set of torches or shielding gas where the only way to lower your pressure after you adjust is to manually release the pressure by opening the valve. Then guess what when you shut the valve the pressure will not creep up it will stay where you put it other wise you would see torches and welders blowing lines left and right from the regulator dumping 3500psi into a rubber line rated for 120psi.

madman1234509 · Jan 5, 2015

Idk maybe what it comes down to is me using the wrong thing. Looking around on some sites I see two regulators, that look exactly the same, one is self relieving, the other isn't. I literally just went down into my garage and took one, hooked it up to my spray gun. When the trigger is pulled the gauge reads 10, all fine and dandy. When I release the trigger and stop the flow, it reads 100psi....

I'll order up some other regulators see if I can get one to work how Morgan is describing, it's exactly what I'm wanting, And if I don't have to buy a 500 dollar AMS that'd be great too.

Morgan@Midwest Diesel & Auto · Jan 5, 2015

madman1234509 said:
And that was a quote that Iiterally took off their site. Unless it's was out dated Idk what to tell you.

Sootie, I've used hardware store regulators, and it sounds like its doing exactly what I described above. It doesn't relieve back pressure until back pressure climbs higher than boost, because you're allowing full boost to the top of the gate. The gate will not open until back pressure overcomes your total boost, no matter how much you turn your regulator because the gate acts as a dead head and pressure equalized on both sides of the orifice. Unless you're using one that completely closes off like Morgan states he's using it probably isn't working properly.

His is working. I set it on his truck when it was here. Dead nuts on, ebp and boost every time.

madman1234509 said:
http://www.hallmanboostcontroller.com/faq.html

Here is a link to the q&a on their site that states they dont make a bleeder style valve.

http://www.hallmanboostcontroller.com/applic.html
Here's a link to their products page. None listed are bleeder style. And they all essentially work the same way, just the internals are different on the two, and you can mount one in the cab.

I'm not trying to argue with you either Morgan. I'm just trying to make sense of the theories that I've read, and why I'm not having success with the regulators I have. If you're using a different style then me, then maybe that explains everything. But a simple ball and spring or variable orifice regulator does not work.

Idk, everyone I've sold or had in my hands have an air bleed. I'll take a picture tonight when I get back.

madman1234509 said:
Idk maybe what it comes down to is me using the wrong thing. Looking around on some sites I see two regulators, that look exactly the same, one is self relieving, the other isn't. I literally just went down into my garage and took one, hooked it up to my spray gun. When the trigger is pulled the gauge reads 10, all fine and dandy. When I release the trigger and stop the flow, it reads 100psi....

I'll order up some other regulators see if I can get one to work how Morgan is describing, it's exactly what I'm wanting, And if I don't have to buy a 500 dollar AMS that'd be great too.

Yeah, whatever you got is wrong. It should stay at what it's set at. I'll get you some regulators. Whatever my cost is. Then there is no question. How many you need?

I'll have some more info for you when I get back to the shop.

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Morgan@Midwest Diesel & Auto · Jan 5, 2015

That takes care of that.

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madman1234509 · Jan 5, 2015

Thanks Morgan. I'd definitely take one for myself.

I know my small charger starts making more than 1:1 around 40lbs of boost. I'd have to double check the compressor map for its efficiency range, but I want it to make all of 40 with it. I just want to drive the big charger harder. The only thing I'm working against is the small turbine wheel in the big charger, and it's inefficiency. I need a gt55 to fix that

madman1234509 · Jan 5, 2015

Wouldn't the hole be covered up by the hose that's attached to it? This is what I ment by a bleeder style mbc vs a ball/spring.. The picture below is not what you have. Does it state what the tiny hole is for? I'm assuming Its to relieve pressure in the line after you let off the gas? A bleeder style controller works by taking boost out of the reference line to adjust the pressure applied to the wastegate, that's not what you have.

madman1234509 · Jan 5, 2015

Look at one of the bullets right on the top of your second picture. It literally states "this is not a bleeder valve type controller".

Morgan@Midwest Diesel & Auto · Jan 5, 2015

Yes, but the hole is in the hex of the fitting.

I really don't care what they want to call it. Every time boost starts coming up, it bleeds air off. And since its in the cab I've heard it for the last 3000 miles. It definitely has a hole. It definitely bleed air off. It definitely says "do not cover hole". Imo there is no other way that calling that an air bleeder.

But it is what it is.

Yes it isnt a parasitic "bleed type" controller. But it does bleed air off. Still a totally different style than a diaphragm.

Either way I don't like the hallman because it's noisy in the cab. And I want controllability from the drivers compartment. So it has to go. The hallman is a ball and spring which is different but about the same as a bleed type. A parasitic bleed type setup is one that can be either a flow control "needle" style, or a ball and spring. The hallman can actually be used either way. But I am using it in the traditional way.

Long and short, a diaphragm style is the most widely used cheap method of controlling boost.

It would work very well for what your doing. I already use them like that in setups just like yours.

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4.0l sahara · Jan 6, 2015

plain old regulator gets my vote. I like my ams1000 but they aren't cheap.

madman1234509 · Jan 6, 2015

Yea, if I were to go electronic I'd just get a 500. Its a dual solenoid and does everything I'd need it to as far as controlling a gate. I don't need more stages and ramp you and data logging blah blah. They are sick though.