15% nozzle stock fuel?

[08strokr]

im thinking i want to run a set of 15% nozzles on the stock hpfp. im currently running an mpd 66 kit with airdog 165 and fuel bowl delete and some no limit stuff. will a set of 15's help me out to get more power. down the road want to go to a 371 or a 367 fmw. what experience do you guys have from these? i dont have the money to run dual fuelers and a 475 and really dont want that much for the street. any input would be greatly appreciated

 

[madman1234509]

If you don't have the money to run dual fuelers then I wouldn't spend the money on nozzles. 99% of the time the stock hpfp can't maintain rail pressure with a race tune and stock nozzles. Save your money. Find deals on a used 2nd pump and a dual fueler kit. Putting bigger nozzles on will drain your rails worse and lessen the life of your hpfp

 

[04stroker]

I think you would maintain with a healthy fuel system. We maintained 30's on Erics truck with just a low pressure system for awhile before it started dropping. Even after it maintained on a street tune. I don't see any way a healthy stock fuel system could not maintain on 15% nozzles.

 

[08strokr]

i can come up with the money thats not that big of a deal, its just the i dont want to spend all that money and have everything detuned to drive on the street. this is a dd and thats why i want to run something small like 15% and a fmw or billit setup. i just want to know if i will be ok running 15's and if it will make a little more power

 

[getstroked27]

not from experience, but from what ive seen/read, youll gain a little on the bottom end, but you will have to dial back pulse width a tit bit on the top end and it should maintain. but dont take my word for it, havent done it personally.

 

[Stroked777]

The bigger nozzles would help with spool up on the low end but you will actually lose pressure on the top end. There is a trade off

 

[Pizza pig]

Our 15% nozzles flow a little bit more than stock, so they are a decent gain with the right tuning. They're not wild where you need to really pull it back to maintain rail pressure. There are so many other objectives to give you a clear cut yes or no answer.

 

[08strokr]

i just want a little more power, im matt at gearheads tunes. Do you think its worth the money? is there anyway i could hit 700 with the stock pump?

 

[madman1234509]

Ben, how many miles do you have on your truck, low pressure fuel system, and injection pump? I can speak from experience that when I had over 90k on my 2008 truck It did not maintain on Spartans 310 tune, with stock nozzles. Rykan I know there have been discussions about Eric's truck before, but his seems to be like the only one that could do it. The other guy that claimed to maintain eventually came back after realizing his truck did not maintain. IMO it's not worth the effort or money for the miniscule gains, potential for draining the rail on a stock hpfp setup, and potential for premature pump failure due constant high duty cycles and draining the rails. You can put them in and dial the pulse width back, but what's the point of putting nozzles in just to dial it back?

You're better off doing a modified pump or duals and running 30% if you want to run a 67fmw or 371.

Just saw your post, on edit... I think it's been proven the stock hpfp doesn't flow enough to really make 700hp. Its really pushing it, maybe with a healthy one and a larger set of compounds or a 71 or 72mm single. If you want some more power swap the 66 for a 71 and try it on stock fuel. It'd probably make high 600s and be pretty clean.

 

[08strokr]

yea im just trying to make high 6's or 7...i mean if i could do that on a 371 and maintain rail pressure that would be what im looking for, I just didnt know if i could do that on stock injectors. currently i have 94k on the truck and prob 50k on the injection pump and around 1k on the airdog.

 

[B585Ford]

OP,
To me, if you have a healthy HPFP and LP system already in place, I would strongly consider it. It will help you down low and when you are cruising, your EGTs will be lower...I don't think anyone would disagree with that. The question about max HP is where the debate is. With the exact tune you are running now, my best guess is you probably won't gain any significant HP based on JD's testing, but I still think there is potential for some gains with enough tweaking on a tune....adjustments in timing and PW. Eric (Innovative) was a fan of running slightly larger nozzles even if the PW would have to be cut slightly. He claimed to see gains and since he did live tuning, I will take his word for it. Look at the spray patterns on pistons on guys running full PW tunes. It is clear all that fuel aint going in the bowl and we are pissing fuel at the piston to some extent. If you can get the larger nozzle that allows you cut PW and put the fuel in bowl, I would think that would lead to better atomization (more power, cooler EGTs, and less smoke). I am running GH tunes and I plan to try to work with Matt on the tweaks to get the most HP possible....I am hopeful that it will work, I guess we will see soon.

 

[Tree Trimmer]

You can put them in and dial the pulse width back, but what's the point of putting nozzles in just to dial it back?

the point is to change where your power is, depending on how you use your truck.

me, for example, i can count on one hand the times i have been over 3-3500 rpms in a year.

power up top is pointless to me, i'm not there, i dont use it, so why set up my truck to have the power there?

hooked to a trailer, i want my power down low. it's where i drive.

and if changing to a 15% or 30% would get me that, and pulling back pw would lose the top end that i'm never in to begin with, then swapping to a larger nozzle is a no brainer for me, or anyone else who uses their truck in a manner like I do.

most people make the assumption when someone is asking bout nozzles, that their after power up top, for dragging, or pulling, or....or.....

for some, thats not the case.

i think when wayne was doing all his testing, or maybe it was JD, one of them has a dyno graph that compares stock to 30%, iirc.

and it showed large though not huge gains down low, and a drop off up top. though that was with the same tune, not with one made for 30% on stock fuel. and those pro's and con's were enough to make me want to do it to my truck. the rpm range it lost power in i'm never in, and where it had the most gains, is my rpm range daily.

even if you have a tune made to make use of 30% on stock fuel, you would still lose up top, though not as much as not making the changes. there are graphs floating around in here somewhere that shows all this, but i have not been able to find them again, but i remember seeing them.

i believe even dustin is on a larger is better kick, when it comes to nozzles. granted, his is with dual fuelers, but i remember reading him saying anything less than 150's(whatever % that is) is a waste. he would rather tune back a larger, than run a smaller.

 

[Dzchey21]

the point is to change where your power is, depending on how you use your truck.

me, for example, i can count on one hand the times i have been over 3-3500 rpms in a year.

power up top is pointless to me, i'm not there, i dont use it, so why set up my truck to have the power there?

hooked to a trailer, i want my power down low. it's where i drive.

and if changing to a 15% or 30% would get me that, and pulling back pw would lose the top end that i'm never in to begin with, then swapping to a larger nozzle is a no brainer for me, or anyone else who uses their truck in a manner like I do.

most people make the assumption when someone is asking bout nozzles, that their after power up top, for dragging, or pulling, or....or.....

for some, thats not the case.

i think when wayne was doing all his testing, or maybe it was JD, one of them has a dyno graph that compares stock to 30%, iirc.

and it showed large though not huge gains down low, and a drop off up top. though that was with the same tune, not with one made for 30% on stock fuel. and those pro's and con's were enough to make me want to do it to my truck. the rpm range it lost power in i'm never in, and where it had the most gains, is my rpm range daily.

even if you have a tune made to make use of 30% on stock fuel, you would still lose up top, though not as much as not making the changes. there are graphs floating around in here somewhere that shows all this, but i have not been able to find them again, but i remember seeing them.

i believe even dustin is on a larger is better kick, when it comes to nozzles. granted, his is with dual fuelers, but i remember reading him saying anything less than 150's(whatever % that is) is a waste. he would rather tune back a larger, than run a smaller.

yep your right i like my big nozzles even on a single pump but thats just me.

In this case stepping up the single charger to a bigger one i would def do the nozzles to make it spool better.

 

[madman1234509]

Do you ever think that when they installed the 30% nozzles and they had gains down low it was because they had the extra fuel, and we're maintaining the desired pulse width down low, then up top lost some power because they weren't maintaining the higher pulse width and the higher rpm/injection per minute rate.. I don't doubt that there may be gains down low, but it's not that there aren't gains up top, it's that the truck isn't running right (by not maintaining rail pressure)so it isn't making the power it could be for the amount of fuel the tips are capable of. But it's been proven over and over that these pumps barely maintain a race tune on stock injector tips. I just think putting any nozzle on with a single stock pump will promote premature failure of the pump. Might as well get the right pump set up, put bigger nozzles on, and dial it down. I'm totally for that. I have a street truck and 100% nozzles. I absolutely will never use the fuel 100% nozzles will supply so my tunes are backed down, and are still being backed down to where I'll be satisfied with pretty clean power. But I have lower pulse widths with better atomization because the fuel is probably staying in the bowl, and I maintain rail pressure.

 

[B585Ford]

Do you ever think that when they installed the 30% nozzles and they had gains down low it was because they had the extra fuel, and we're maintaining the desired pulse width down low, then up top lost some power because they weren't maintaining the higher pulse width and the higher rpm/injection per minute rate

I agree 100%

.. I don't doubt that there may be gains down low

JD's testing confirmed there were gains down low.

but it's not that there aren't gains up top, it's that the truck isn't running right (by not maintaining rail pressure)so it isn't making the power it could be for the amount of fuel the tips are capable of.

I don't care if my fuel setup doesn't allow me to make the max possible power out of any larger nozzle. What I care about are which tips (with my fuel system setup) will produce the best atomization and efficiency.

But it's been proven over and over that these pumps barely maintain a race tune on stock injector tips.

They barely maintain on a full PW race tune. I think with the right tuning (even with a PW cut back) on a larger nozzle you could improve atomization/efficiency and therefore power.

I just think putting any nozzle on with a single stock pump will promote premature failure of the pump. Might as well get the right pump set up, put bigger nozzles on, and dial it down. I'm totally for that. I have a street truck and 100% nozzles. I absolutely will never use the fuel 100% nozzles will supply so my tunes are backed down, and are still being backed down to where I'll be satisfied with pretty clean power. But I have lower pulse widths with better atomization because the fuel is probably staying in the bowl, and I maintain rail pressure.

Exactly...I think with the right tuning we could get better atomization (at WOT even if we cut the PW) from a slightly larger nozzle....I guess we will see.

 

[Wayne]

If you want better drivability, people have pointed out how this can be achieved with a larger nozzle. However, I have NEVER seen anyone PROVE to have gained power without nitrous by going to a larger injector on a single stock injection pump,no matter the tuning. As pointed out, there are other benefits, but if having a fancy dyno number to show off to your buddies is the goal, you need a different approach.

Another thing to keep in mind. adding a 2nd injection pump causes parasitic draw on the engine. In my experience, 15% over nozzles with twin pumps actually produced a slight loss in peak power, most likely because the increase in fuel was not enough to offset the power robbed by the extra pump. Anyone running twin pumps will tell you though, that off-idle power is much better with twin pumps, despite the nozzle size, because demanded fuel pressure at low rpm's is much more easily attained.

 

[AirFishAutomotive]

I think Kelly aka beans###### on here maybe running 15% or 30% on stock hpf and I believe it woke his truck up a ton...... his name is beans with a bunch of numbers on here LOL

 

[Pizza pig]

he's running a set of our 15% nozzles, they work very well for Kelley

 

[LovinPSDs]

So if someone wanted more low end but wasn't concerned about pulling the top end back 15%'s help that?

 

[powerstrokin15]

mine was a freak like mentioned and maintained 30s for a short time on full pw. ran very well but shortly after started to die off. im throwing 15s in mine as well with a brand new HPFP.