160/30 vs 160's

[HairyPalmer]

Have you actually ever ran a 400hp+ non I/C OBS? What temps did it run? How much boost did it make? How long did the driveline last?

twice, 25,000 F, 125 lbs. of boost, 8 minutes :fustrate:

 

[Dieselfever]

My '97 Dyno'd 401/807 on Dunbar's dyno at SDX '09, with 200/30's, fuel system, stock HPOP, modded H2E, No I/C, Swamps programs. All 2010 pulling season I used it to haul my pulling truck on a 20+5 dual tandem Mortz gooseneck. I made over 30 pulls going as far away as Sturgis, KY which is 243 miles each way.

400 hp, no intercooler

 

[HairyPalmer]

guess things have drastically changed. thats impressive for so little money spent!

 

[HairyPalmer]

the h2e isn't a stock charger though the 200/30 and my 160/ 80 I would call a wash. the more efficient turbo may help some as far as cooling.... dunno. also your truck only needs to stay at a 1200 deg temp egt wise for a short time being a sled puller. I guess my point is, I set out to do a 375 -400 rwhp truck and I want to make it live at that hp level as a daily driver. other wise I would have bought a propane kit and been done with it. Do you tow at 400 hp? I'm hoping I can. obviously I have missed alot in the 2 years I've been doing my truck up and wasted alot of money. please educate me.

 

[TyCorr]

the h2e isn't a stock charger though the 200/30 and my 160/ 80 I would call a wash. the more efficient turbo may help some as far as cooling.... dunno. also your truck only needs to stay at a 1200 deg temp egt wise for a short time being a sled puller. I guess my point is, I set out to do a 375 -400 rwhp truck and I want to make it live at that hp level as a daily driver. other wise I would have bought a propane kit and been done with it. Do you tow at 400 hp? I'm hoping I can. obviously I have missed alot in the 2 years I've been doing my truck up and wasted alot of money. please educate me.

the truck he was talking about was his tow bithc. A puller goes waaay over that. If you'd have made a typo and said 2100 it would have been in the right zipcode but you're outside the realm of reality. He was telling you the specs on his towrig and that it made 30 loaded trips and didn't break. The turbo and injectors are fairly inconsequential, fairly, as it takes x amount of fuel and y amount of air to make 400hp. The point is, it's doable and practical.

@lincolnlocker- I do not believe the the d66 and super 66 are the same specification wise. A d66 is an obs/ e99 turbo. The super 66 is a non-wg version with a looser turbine and larger compressor wheel. I've never owned a vehicle with one. I only assume what I said because of mistakenly recommending a 38r for a e99 and jngreen corrected me and explained what a 66/super66 is.

Carry on!

 

[HairyPalmer]

verry nice gypsy, how much?

 

[85_305]

My '97 Dyno'd 401/807 on Dunbar's dyno at SDX '09, with 200/30's, fuel system, stock HPOP, modded H2E, No I/C, Swamps programs. All 2010 pulling season I used it to haul my pulling truck on a 20+5 dual tandem Mortz gooseneck. I made over 30 pulls going as far away as Sturgis, KY which is 243 miles each way.

400 hp, no intercooler

Very nice :thumb:

guess things have drastically changed. thats impressive for so little money spent!

Yes they sure have. 7.3's used to be the trucks you need to drop a ton of coin on to get any power out of. Now, 7.3s are easier/cheaper to get power out of than 24v cummins.

the h2e isn't a stock charger though the 200/30 and my 160/ 80 I would call a wash. the more efficient turbo may help some as far as cooling.... dunno. also your truck only needs to stay at a 1200 deg temp egt wise for a short time being a sled puller. I guess my point is, I set out to do a 375 -400 rwhp truck and I want to make it live at that hp level as a daily driver. other wise I would have bought a propane kit and been done with it. Do you tow at 400 hp? I'm hoping I can. obviously I have missed alot in the 2 years I've been doing my truck up and wasted alot of money. please educate me.

It's all in the tunes and the components. Beans in my opinion OWNS the 7.3 market, with TW being directly behind him. If you have the right tunes, the right injectors, and right TRANS TUNING (much more important than you think), and you've got a great running 7.3

 

[TyCorr]

Very nice :thumb:



Yes they sure have. 7.3's used to be the trucks you need to drop a ton of coin on to get any power out of. Now, 7.3s are easier/cheaper to get power out of than 24v cummins.



It's all in the tunes and the components. Beans in my opinion OWNS the 7.3 market, with TW being directly behind him. If you have the right tunes, the right injectors, and right TRANS TUNING (much more important than you think), and you've got a great running 7.3

Beans tunes a lot of trucks. That said they don't own the market. Custom tuning is fairly small.percentage of the overall market. What about Swamps? The house hold name in powerstroke performance. There's another tuner that I would say has the custom tuning market cornered. Also PHP has great tuning. I like the manner in which TW conducts himself in forums. Some aren't so professional.

 

[85_305]

Beans tunes a lot of trucks. That said they don't own the market. Custom tuning is fairly small.percentage of the overall market. What about Swamps? The house hold name in powerstroke performance. There's another tuner that I would say has the custom tuning market cornered. Also PHP has great tuning. I like the manner in which TW conducts himself in forums. Some aren't so professional.

Tony is awol from the forums 90% of the time, although he is a great person. Cary is a GREAT rep for him. Beans participates in forums ALL the time and does a wonderful job explaining, tuning, and fixing things.

When I say "owns the market", I guess I used a poor choice in words. I wouldn't say beans owns the tuning market because the market is broad, and typically their tunes are pricey. What I meant was beans owns the overall performance aspect; hp/tq/curve. With wildman being a close second. Thats just my opinion and what I've seen in shootouts and dyno sheets.

 

[TyCorr]

Tony is awol from the forums 90% of the time, although he is a great person. Cary is a GREAT rep for him. Beans participates in forums ALL the time and does a wonderful job explaining, tuning, and fixing things.

When I say "owns the market", I guess I used a poor choice in words. I wouldn't say beans owns the tuning market because the market is broad, and typically their tunes are pricey. What I meant was beans owns the overall performance aspect; hp/tq/curve. With wildman being a close second. Thats just my opinion and what I've seen in shootouts and dyno sheets.

Oh, ok. You're right.

Derail over.

 

[HairyPalmer]

It's all in the tunes and the components. Beans in my opinion OWNS the 7.3 market, with TW being directly behind him. If you have the right tunes, the right injectors, and right TRANS TUNING (much more important than you think), and you've got a great running 7.3

A SMF and Southbend clutch pretty much rounded out my trans. tuning. It may be that I was tuned for an IC and havent done it yet. MY BAD.:blitzed:

 

[kampy]

I've run 170/stock nozzle and 170/30's on the same truck, same mods, both sets of injectors were run with a 9 blade SD compressor wheel and both the stock 1.15 housing and a 1.0 exhaust housing and have dyno'd all 4 configurations. All runs were on the same DJ dyno. The 30% nozzles consistently made 20 additional hp in my tow tune with no changes to the tuning. My numbers from the calculators are 368 rwhp by trap speed, 343 by ET, and 367 corrected on the DJ. I ran the 170/stock for about 15k and the 170/30 have been in for about 25k.

FWIW, I've run Beans tuning on a SD, and on the OBS I've run swamps tunes and PHP tunes and they made good power but all smoked like a train. I run Matt's tunes now and I've had them for the last couple years and after a couple tweaks I now get a puff of gray smoke on tip in and then its clean. Of the three tuners I've used Matt has the best overall, well mannered, well rounded, low smoke, daily driver tunes hands down but that's just my opinion.

Background and personal experience: I built the injectors with parts from Jim and the 30% nozzles are from swamps. My tow tune is also my daily driver tune, its the only tune I use and I had Matt pull fuel out of it on the low boost/low end range to keep it mostly smoke free. Don't know where you live altitude-wise but I'm at 5500 ft and go up from there, up as high as 11k ft in the Eisenhower tunnel in Colorado. I have a slide in 10ft camper and tow a jeep on a trailer, gross loaded is right at 17K. I can pull any grade around here and the truck never goes over 1150 and rarely kicks out of OD with the cruise set at 75 and several grades are 6-8% for several miles.

I've had much better luck both from an empty drive-ability and loaded tow-ability stand point with the 1.0 exhaust housing. The response is excellent, even at these altitudes, noticeably better than the 1.15 housing.

Hope that gives a little real world perspective.

Bottom line is.... just pick a nozzle, there's really not that much difference for daily driving. Pick your tuner of choice, drive it a while, talk to your tuner about what bugs you and have them tweak it. After a couple times you'll have it the way you want it for what you need and desire.

Hairy, as for the towing goes, you can easily tow with a 400 hp engine in a 400 hp tune but you don't need, and can't use all the power except for brief periods like pulling grades. It very unlikely you'll be using even 200 hp most of the time unless its short distances. That kind of power melts differentials in trucks our size. When I tow, it's usually about 450 miles to Colorado, 350 miles to Moab, or the 1300 mile trip to Illinois to see the grandkids.

85 305 – Bean can tell you anything you want to believe, and yes, a stock turbo will live at 400 hp non intercooled...on a dyno for a 20 second run. Looks good on a dyno sheet but you're simply not going to put down 400 non intercooled hp on a stock turbo in a towing situation without melting the engine, period. But of course, you're welcome to try.

 

[85_305]

I've run 170/stock nozzle and 170/30's on the same truck, same mods, both sets of injectors were run with a 9 blade SD compressor wheel and both the stock 1.15 housing and a 1.0 exhaust housing and have dyno'd all 4 configurations. All runs were on the same DJ dyno. The 30% nozzles consistently made 20 additional hp in my tow tune with no changes to the tuning. My numbers from the calculators are 368 rwhp by trap speed, 343 by ET, and 367 corrected on the DJ. I ran the 170/stock for about 15k and the 170/30 have been in for about 25k.

FWIW, I've run Beans tuning on a SD, and on the OBS I've run swamps tunes and PHP tunes and they made good power but all smoked like a train. I run Matt's tunes now and I've had them for the last couple years and after a couple tweaks I now get a puff of gray smoke on tip in and then its clean. Of the three tuners I've used Matt has the best overall, well mannered, well rounded, low smoke, daily driver tunes hands down but that's just my opinion.

Background and personal experience: I built the injectors with parts from Jim and the 30% nozzles are from swamps. My tow tune is also my daily driver tune, its the only tune I use and I had Matt pull fuel out of it on the low boost/low end range to keep it mostly smoke free. Don't know where you live altitude-wise but I'm at 5500 ft and go up from there, up as high as 11k ft in the Eisenhower tunnel in Colorado. I have a slide in 10ft camper and tow a jeep on a trailer, gross loaded is right at 17K. I can pull any grade around here and the truck never goes over 1150 and rarely kicks out of OD with the cruise set at 75 and several grades are 6-8% for several miles.

I've had much better luck both from an empty drive-ability and loaded tow-ability stand point with the 1.0 exhaust housing. The response is excellent, even at these altitudes, noticeably better than the 1.15 housing.

Hope that gives a little real world perspective.

Bottom line is.... just pick a nozzle, there's really not that much difference for daily driving. Pick your tuner of choice, drive it a while, talk to your tuner about what bugs you and have them tweak it. After a couple times you'll have it the way you want it for what you need and desire.

Hairy, as for the towing goes, you can easily tow with a 400 hp engine in a 400 hp tune but you don't need, and can't use all the power except for brief periods like pulling grades. It very unlikely you'll be using even 200 hp most of the time unless its short distances. That kind of power melts differentials in trucks our size. When I tow, it's usually about 450 miles to Colorado, 350 miles to Moab, or the 1300 mile trip to Illinois to see the grandkids.

85 305 – Bean can tell you anything you want to believe, and yes, a stock turbo will live at 400 hp non intercooled...on a dyno for a 20 second run. Looks good on a dyno sheet but you're simply not going to put down 400 non intercooled hp on a stock turbo in a towing situation without melting the engine, period. But of course, you're welcome to try.

I didn't say that beans said they'd make a 400hp tow-tune... I said they'd make a 400hp hot tune, with a safe tow tune.

I've been considering a 1.0 for some time now, due to the fact that I hear so much good about its responsiveness... but I really like how the 1.15 fills in when you give it more fuel. I'm keeping the 1.15 for now for drive-pressures; when I get these injectors I wanna make sure my turbo lives by keeping drive pressures down. But I've heard of people making significantly better track times/better-easier towing w/ the 1.0

What was your trap/et's w/ the injectors?

 

[bad12jr]

I can easily push my stock obs charger to 35 psi and even 40 a few times. It is NOT happy there. Im just waiting for a nice pow on a hard run. No way I'd trust it with any more fuel on the 1.15 housing.

Sent from my x2 somewhere

 

[TyCorr]

I can't imagine running stg IIs on a stock.charger. I put my38r on with my stock sticks so I don't really know. Things is, the 38r felt like it was sleeping in that setup. 5-7 psi unless you hammered it. It was at home with the stg IIs and 80% nozzles. I'm gonna need gate immediately when I put these 275/200s in. I'm planning on a Garrett BB atmo too though. Anyway, I'd love to hear a stocker being pushed be 1s or 2s.

 

[kampy]

I didn't say that beans said they'd make a 400hp tow-tune... I said they'd make a 400hp hot tune, with a safe tow tune.

Not specifically Beans, but you alluded to it in your response to Hairy in post 98. reread what he asked you and what your answer was.

I've been considering a 1.0 for some time now, due to the fact that I hear so much good about its responsiveness... but I really like how the 1.15 fills in when you give it more fuel. I'm keeping the 1.15 for now for drive-pressures; when I get these injectors I wanna make sure my turbo lives by keeping drive pressures down. But I've heard of people making significantly better track times/better-easier towing w/ the 1.0

What was your trap/et's w/ the injectors?

After rereading the thread, I noticed your near sea level, the 1.15 housing will probably be fine, a lot of us higher altitude guys use the 1.0 with good results because of the thinner air, when I had my 1.15 on didn't have any trouble spooling and making boost in Illinois at 800 ft, it just seems to be a bigger issue at altitude. The turbo is the original with 235K on it, the last 40k or so with the 1.0 housing towing on a fairly regular basis, it's probably got close to 15k towing miles of those 40

truck ran a 15.10/91@7200 lbs only boosting to ~5 psi at the line and it was over 100 degrees the day I ran it.

 

[HairyPalmer]

I would imagine I make close to 400 hp. I will hit up DPU's dyno next weekend. I don't want to tow at 400hp. I want my truck to be able to tow at 400 hp If I so choose though. My thoughts from the beginning are, if my truck made 1000 hp on a dyno but can only be driven at a 400hp tune..... then it's really only a 400hp truck. much like the cat 140 grader I sit my ass in every day. It's easily capable of 1000hp. It lives everyday at 250 hp though.... so CAT calls it a 250 hp engine.

 

[85_305]

Thanks for the response. How's the e40d holding up w/ the tc?

The tow tune Beans will drop fuel some to keep egts down though, I won't use a 400hp tune.

 

[HairyPalmer]

my bad, 150 hp. As I run a G series most day's. I have a man. tran's with a SMF and SB dual disk clutch.

 

[HairyPalmer]

I can't imagine running stg IIs on a stock.charger. I put my38r on with my stock sticks so I don't really know. Things is, the 38r felt like it was sleeping in that setup. 5-7 psi unless you hammered it. It was at home with the stg IIs and 80% nozzles. I'm gonna need gate immediately when I put these 275/200s in. I'm planning on a Garrett BB atmo too though. Anyway, I'd love to hear a stocker being pushed be 1s or 2s.

Out of ignorance, what does a waste gate accomplish on a diesel? I've hit 40lbs on my D-66 and no boost spike. I always ran a bov and gate on my old crx drag car for the obvious reasons though. when you get into bigger fuel/ turbos than mine does boost spike become an issue?