2000 cold start issue

[mandkole]

swapped in a new ford cps because it did have an intermittent cps fault code. I think the rpm while cranking is 140-150 iirc. Once the glow plugs kick off the system voltage is 13.5-14 depending on the rpm. With the glow plugs cycling engine running the voltage is 12-12.5. Could the starter be the issue, drawing too many amps? There was a time yesterday teh voltage dipped low enough my scanner lost connection while cranking. That was when i came back 5 minutes later and it fired right up after cycling the gp's.

I'd been thinking about your starter as well but your voltage 13.5 when running? that would seem low. Load test of batts and starter would be good.

 

[sootie]

i have seen similar symptoms with a shorted glow plug relay.

 

[dthompson]

I'd swap a starter laying around in it and see what happens. The one in my ex was dragging down bad. Slow cranking and seemed like batteries were dead, even though they were new. Could crank for 3 or 4 seconds, cycle the key and then it would start up. Worth try anyway....

 

[bluedge8]

this thing is going to get blown up. wouldnt start, walk away for 5 minutes crank again and it starts..... disconnected batteries, tested... both passed. came back 5 minutes later no start, hooked up jumpers fired right up. truck dies and wont start 5 times, 6th it fires up and runs great. cables dont look bad, connections are tight, checked battery grounds on engine, engine to cab, etc. all looks good. just random ****ing no starts. Hit it with ether or jumpers and it fires right up. wtf.

I was wondering about the starter myself, do you have the ability to measure amp draw on the starter? I had a starter that turned the motor ok but just seemed off and seemed like the batteries were going bad even though they were new. I changed out the starter and it cranked over like it was going to jump out of the truck, popped right off. I had the old starter load tested and it was over 600 amps, should have been half of that. I don't think your problem is on single thing, I think you have a few issues giving you fits.

 

[Short Bus]

I don't think your problem is on single thing, I think you have a few issues giving you fits.

I think you are correct.... the problem started with no hpo on a cold start and is now down to injectors not firing. I cant do any more tests, teh customer had to pick his truck up to haul hay. Ive got a pcm and idm coming but in the mean time he is supposed to be swapping batteries and having the starter tested or replaced.

 

[Short Bus]

This truck has a dpc-431 pcm, is there any other pcm's that interchange with it? I looked it up on oreilly's website and called it in, for what ever reason they cannot get the 431. or at least thats what they told me.

 

[Dirtclod]

O'riellys in Lafayette IN had that one for @250$. It was nearly 600 for mine

 

[Skill_Kills]

This is the most helpful 7.3 starting post I've found
Originally posted by Dave (Golfer) on PSN 01-20-2010 Thanks Dave

its nevvvvver the oil pump...seriously.

I see sooooooooooooooo many guys (dealerships included) that see "no ICP" or some ICP codes in a scantool...and toss HPOP's on truck after truck...when it is either an IPR or an injector (poppet valve) issue.

If you hook up the scantool, and monitor ICP (psi) while cranking...you'll see IPR% (duty cycle) climb & climb 15% key on..20, 30, 40, 55%, higher..the increase in IPR% means that the PCM is requesting ICP pressure to increase...

so ALSO watch ICP(psi) and if it comes up to only 180-250psi or so and stays there...then it's the IPR hung open (bypassing oil back to the oil pan through the front coverhttp://www.amazon.com/Budge-Cover-Sedans-inches-B-3/dp/B000ALG86E) such that only minimal psi can be made.

If the ICP is VERY low...like under 60psi...then it could be injector (poppets) pissing oil (under the VC's)..which is typical for injector with more than 180-200k miles.

if ICP climbs above 550-600..then it will probably climb much higher (15-1800+) and it is most likely going to be an electrical issue.

If his scantool will not connect then its a PCM or chip issue (remove the chip if you have one & haven't removed it yet)

if the scantool connects AND you have >600ICP then look at the datastream for a RPM reading.

if the scantool picks up an RPM signal and it seems accurate....then the CPS is good.

If no RPM on the scantool, replace CPS.

If you have RPM (on scantool, not just on dash)...AND have ICP >600, then run an (key on, eng off) injector "buzz test"...

the buzz test is nothing more than a continuity test from the PCM, through the IDM, and to & from each injector solenoidhttp://www.amazon.com/Pico-1986-On-Injector-Solenoid-12085491/dp/B001RPRLM2.

LISTEN to each inj buzz....do they all sound the same? nice & crisp?

if the test passes (and you audibly heard them all)...then wiring is good, IDM is good, HPOP is good...CPS is good...then it could be a fuel issue. gasoline, water, etc...

I wouldn't mention it if I haven't seen it myself numerous times...

any chance this no start began with 10-20miles after a fillup?

holler if you need help troubleshooting. take care~ Dave
__________________________________________________ ______________________

Hears some good info also:

7.3L Powerstroke Starting Requirements:
Battery http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias=automotive&field-keywords=car+batteryvoltage a minimum of 10.5 volts while cranking
RPM at least 100 while cranking. If no tach movement suspect CPS
If you have a scan tool ICP should be 500 PSI ± 25 PSI and fuel
pulse width should be 1 to 6 milliseconds.

The above requirements assume the following:

Correct oil level, oil type and pressure
Correct type of fuel
Correct fuel pressure (53 PSI per Ford spec)
Sufficient air supply (clean air filterhttp://www.amazon.com/s?fst=as:off&rh=n:15684181,k:air+filter&keywords=air+filter&ie=UTF8 & unobstructed intake)
Proper oil level in HPOP reservoir (1 to ¾ inch from top)
Proper glow plug relay and glow plughttp://www.amazon.com/gp/search?ie=...ex=automotive&keywords=glow+plug&linkCode=ur2 operation (in cold weather)
Proper injection timing (PCM controlled)

 

[Skill_Kills]

After re reading the thread again, It sounds exactly the same as the motor I put in my 53. Sounds like the starter is pulling too many amps and cutting out the injectors and even dropping connection with the scanner(exactly like mine did).
The motor should easily crank @120-150 rpms and not drop voltage below 11v. with a scanner hooked up and watching ICP, battery voltage, and RPM you should be able to watch the ICP climb right up to ~700 once the RPMs are over 110 or so with the batteries above 11v or more.

sounds like the IPR was going bad causing long cranks which eventually led to the starter crapping out. This was the case on both my trucks when i bought them

 

[Short Bus]

After re reading the thread again, It sounds exactly the same as the motor I put in my 53. Sounds like the starter is pulling too many amps and cutting out the injectors and even dropping connection with the scanner(exactly like mine did).
The motor should easily crank @120-150 rpms and not drop voltage below 11v. with a scanner hooked up and watching ICP, battery voltage, and RPM you should be able to watch the ICP climb right up to ~700 once the RPMs are over 110 or so with the batteries above 11v or more.

sounds like the IPR was going bad causing long cranks which eventually led to the starter crapping out. This was the case on both my trucks when i bought them

thanks for your posts. Icp does go up, as does the fuel pressure but no smoke out the tail pipe.... aka no injectors firing. I had to send the truck back to the owner, hopefully he swaps batteries and starter like i asked him to. If not i hope he like starting it with ether. There's only so much i can do. why couldnt i just win the power ball and not have to worry about this shyt anymore!