4R100 BUILDS HEAT
- Thread starter HBDELUX
- Start date
dmd
Member
I have no idea how an air pocket could stay in the line. Even at idle mine pumps
an enormous amount of fluid. How could air stay in there, it isnt like it is gravity
fed or a syphon. If the TC is unlocked then yea, it will heat up. No question about
that.
Wonder if the 6.0 cooler has smaller diameter lines that can maybe plug easier?
So far I haven't seen over 180-deg in any condition even in 110-deg heat pulling
a 10k TT.
an enormous amount of fluid. How could air stay in there, it isnt like it is gravity
fed or a syphon. If the TC is unlocked then yea, it will heat up. No question about
that.
Wonder if the 6.0 cooler has smaller diameter lines that can maybe plug easier?
So far I haven't seen over 180-deg in any condition even in 110-deg heat pulling
a 10k TT.
caladash
New member
The past few weeks I've seen 165 give or take a few degrees. Picked up a zero turn mower a week ago and loaded it in our 6x12 trailer on one of the hotter days and temps were the same, maybe the 175 range. Isspro gauges. Temp on the truck lieometer has been 99 to 102. Very high humidity makes it feel way hotter. Real feel of about 114 degrees. Mixed driving as well with the ac on all the time. Tranny fluid I use is the napa mercon changed every 30k, parts house filter. Nothing special. I've spent a lot of time in Yuma and know the heat you guys are talking about! I'm no expert by any means but in my opinion your tranny temps are HOT!
Is there a possibility that the tranny pump can't flow properly through the 6.0 cooler? I have a sun coast tranny and was "told" it has a different pump that flows more over stock. Even our excursion with tunes and a heavy foot runs at 175 degrees on a stock (as far as I know) tranny.
Last edited:
Mark Kovalsky
Active member
The cooler circuit should flow at least one gallon per minute when idling in park.
No, the lines in a 6.0L cooler are larger diameter than a 4R100 cooler.
No. A stock 4R100 pump flows plenty of oil for the 6.0L cooler.
Mark Kovalsky
Active member
That's a bit more than normal. Not enough to freak out, though.
fatsix
New member
This may be a dumb question. Did you replace the cooler when changing the transmission, were the lines cleaned out?
Yes, the lines were flushed and a new 6.0 trans cooler was installed at the time the trans was done. I'll try to throw up some closer pix of the metal I am concerned about . Not sure how well those pix show the metal in question, I should have taken closer pix.
Denver- the Exhaust is in the the factory locations, its a 4 inch exhaust so I dont think that is an issue.
*update for the ARMY
Flipped the 6.0 cooler so the lines flow into/exit the top of the cooler. NO CHANGE.
Air pocket in 6.0 cooler eliminated as the poss issue.
Tested flow out of the trans return line, In 15 seconds of idle in park and what ever time/fluid drained before I could shut off the truck and get around front (I was quick) Resulted in 44-46 oz measured & nothing was coming out of the rear Trans port.
Fluid and filter change (shaffers). see pan pix. NO CHANGE
Added Trucool 40k cooler behind the grill with inline Magnafine. NO CHANGE
Ran 6.0 routed to Trucool= 200*- 205* NO LOAD. Thats a whloe lotta cooler area for a 5*-10* drop.
Then Changed back to Tru-cool, only I have another cooler coming.
I will be draining the fluid and checking the pan prior to installing the new cooler I will have less than 400 miles since fluid change. I expect to see nothing in that pan. I will run the new cooler through the Rad cooler to the new cooler and back to trans & test temps. If need be I will the hook back into the Tru-cool then back to the trans. I will update this thread if anyone is still interested.
It seems like I have the converter locked at highway speeds :wtf:
*update for the ARMY
Flipped the 6.0 cooler so the lines flow into/exit the top of the cooler. NO CHANGE.
Air pocket in 6.0 cooler eliminated as the poss issue.
Tested flow out of the trans return line, In 15 seconds of idle in park and what ever time/fluid drained before I could shut off the truck and get around front (I was quick) Resulted in 44-46 oz measured & nothing was coming out of the rear Trans port.
Fluid and filter change (shaffers). see pan pix. NO CHANGE
Added Trucool 40k cooler behind the grill with inline Magnafine. NO CHANGE
Ran 6.0 routed to Trucool= 200*- 205* NO LOAD. Thats a whloe lotta cooler area for a 5*-10* drop.
Then Changed back to Tru-cool, only I have another cooler coming.
I will be draining the fluid and checking the pan prior to installing the new cooler I will have less than 400 miles since fluid change. I expect to see nothing in that pan. I will run the new cooler through the Rad cooler to the new cooler and back to trans & test temps. If need be I will the hook back into the Tru-cool then back to the trans. I will update this thread if anyone is still interested.
It seems like I have the converter locked at highway speeds :wtf:
I noticed when I installed my exhaust it came closer to the trans cooler lines and my trans temps went up 12-18 degrees. Two things I can think of is you have a deeper trans pan and it holds more fluid or maybe your trans gauge is bad. I wonder if the trans coolers can't support cooling that much fluid. Maybe next time you change the fluid install the factory pan. Maybe when it got rebuilt the temp sensor got switched with another one or maybe the gauge itself is bad.
I tested the trans temp guage and its accurate. Also I dont think that the minor difference in the size of my exhaust is cuasing my heat building problem due to the fact the issue starts to arise at highway speed (60+ mph). My truck is lifted several inches so I am sure there is all kinds of airflow under the truck.
I may have figured this out as of this post, I will hold off posting anything until I am sure.
I may have figured this out as of this post, I will hold off posting anything until I am sure.
Mark Kovalsky
Active member
I don't understand how the amount of fluid has anything to do with the cooling capacity of the coolers. My understanding of thermodynamics and transmission cooling says that the amount of trans fluid has nothing to do with cooling capacity. The heat that the transmission generates is the only input to how much cooling capacity is required.
Care to explain how I'm wrong?
NEVRNF,
What was your rad coolant temp running with those trans fluid temps. I would think it would have to be higher than the the trans temp other wise the only effect it could have would be to cool it thus deleting it from the route should cause a temp rise not drop. Does my logic follow correct?
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I am a bit at a loss as to how somehow putting the 6.0 cooler in the same location as the stock cooler which both have the same basic thickness but is much larger is H is somehow causing higher temps. That some how now the AC condenser is restricting air flow so that it can not keep trans temps under control. Yet it allows enough air to go thru not only itself but the trans cooler and cool the IC air charge to temps under 200 as well as then to pas thru the IC and still keep the rad cool enough to keep the engine coolant in the 195 range. Besides look how many countless threads there are with people swapping in the 6.0 trans cooler and temps dropping way down no where near the 200 mark. Sorry but I very much doubt the issue is the condenser or lack of air flow or heat sinking. BTW on the heat sink idea are some peoples coolers actually in full contact with the AC condenser over their surface area? My has a gap and does not contact it. Without contact it would not function as a heat sink either way and if it was and the AC was off the temps should drop drastically as not the AC would act as the sink for the cooler and with it at the front position has first contact with ambient air flow. If the case of contact maybe tweaking the mounts so it does not touch but I still doubt that is the issue.
The air bubble Dennis mentions I can see being an issue as I questioned it myself when installing my cooler with ports down. But I guess its a trade off between gunk collecting in the cooler or a possible air bubble when you first install it that may have to be purged. Possibly switching to the larger trans lines may take care of the issue if that is what is preventing it from purging properly.
Line F81Z-7A031CE
Line F81Z-7A030CA
By Pass Tube 2C3Z-7H322-BA
So the air bubble is one way that there could be an issue with higher temps but this seems to be a small one given the number of people running 6.0 coolers most all installed in the same way. My thought is its only an issue at install and if its purged OK then it will not be an issue going forward but I could be wrong on this.
If either one of these were a somewhat consistent issue or at least a one with a likely possibility we would see the issue across the board.
But looking at how many hundreds if not thousands of people that have upgraded to the 6.0 cooler over the years with the overwhelming majority seeing huge drops in trans temps I can not see how the AC condenser or anything having to do with its location is an issue or the air bubble is a large issue. Just way to many running it with nothing but great results.
But when you narrow it down to those with upgraded/perf built transmission there seems to be a fair number of reports of higher trans temps. Sure some are fine but I have seen a good number of posts by people doing nothing but swapping in a BTS and having it run hot. I think the person that posted about the possibility of the torque converter is on to something. I recall one person having to send back his trans because of hot temps and it was the converter. Can not recall what it was. This was also an issue I was PM about with a raceX one that also ended up being the converter.
What was your rad coolant temp running with those trans fluid temps. I would think it would have to be higher than the the trans temp other wise the only effect it could have would be to cool it thus deleting it from the route should cause a temp rise not drop. Does my logic follow correct?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am a bit at a loss as to how somehow putting the 6.0 cooler in the same location as the stock cooler which both have the same basic thickness but is much larger is H is somehow causing higher temps. That some how now the AC condenser is restricting air flow so that it can not keep trans temps under control. Yet it allows enough air to go thru not only itself but the trans cooler and cool the IC air charge to temps under 200 as well as then to pas thru the IC and still keep the rad cool enough to keep the engine coolant in the 195 range. Besides look how many countless threads there are with people swapping in the 6.0 trans cooler and temps dropping way down no where near the 200 mark. Sorry but I very much doubt the issue is the condenser or lack of air flow or heat sinking. BTW on the heat sink idea are some peoples coolers actually in full contact with the AC condenser over their surface area? My has a gap and does not contact it. Without contact it would not function as a heat sink either way and if it was and the AC was off the temps should drop drastically as not the AC would act as the sink for the cooler and with it at the front position has first contact with ambient air flow. If the case of contact maybe tweaking the mounts so it does not touch but I still doubt that is the issue.
The air bubble Dennis mentions I can see being an issue as I questioned it myself when installing my cooler with ports down. But I guess its a trade off between gunk collecting in the cooler or a possible air bubble when you first install it that may have to be purged. Possibly switching to the larger trans lines may take care of the issue if that is what is preventing it from purging properly.
Line F81Z-7A031CE
Line F81Z-7A030CA
By Pass Tube 2C3Z-7H322-BA
So the air bubble is one way that there could be an issue with higher temps but this seems to be a small one given the number of people running 6.0 coolers most all installed in the same way. My thought is its only an issue at install and if its purged OK then it will not be an issue going forward but I could be wrong on this.
If either one of these were a somewhat consistent issue or at least a one with a likely possibility we would see the issue across the board.
But looking at how many hundreds if not thousands of people that have upgraded to the 6.0 cooler over the years with the overwhelming majority seeing huge drops in trans temps I can not see how the AC condenser or anything having to do with its location is an issue or the air bubble is a large issue. Just way to many running it with nothing but great results.
But when you narrow it down to those with upgraded/perf built transmission there seems to be a fair number of reports of higher trans temps. Sure some are fine but I have seen a good number of posts by people doing nothing but swapping in a BTS and having it run hot. I think the person that posted about the possibility of the torque converter is on to something. I recall one person having to send back his trans because of hot temps and it was the converter. Can not recall what it was. This was also an issue I was PM about with a raceX one that also ended up being the converter.
I tend to agree with you and if you do see a cooling change it would have to be on both ends. If it takes longer to cooler then it has to take longer to heat up in the first place. If the cooler rate is kept the same then over the average there should be no real change but would help if the use was short hard use followed by long enough running at much lower loads to allow the extra time to bring the extra fluid down the temp. So I can not see how it could negatively effect peak temps. AS most deeper pans also have increased cooling capacity as well as having more surface area I would think this would negative some of the slower cooler issues.
Mark Kovalsky
Active member
TRANSMISSION PANS DO NOT COOL THE ATF.
The air around the pan is HOT from the air dumped from the cooling system and from the exhaust that is nearby. Also, there is a boundary layer of fluid near the pan surface, so the hottest fluid doesn't touch the pan. I have studied and tested this, it's not up for debate as to what you expect to happen.
More surface area only gets you more opportunity to warm the ATF, not cool it. But due to very little movement of fluid near the pan, you won't get much heating, either.
Bottom line: My heat issue building at speed was not that the first 6.0 cooler had an air pocket/bubbles.
The pan and exhaust were not the issue either.
What did happen was a bunch of aluminum milling/shavings from inside the Trans or TQ converter when it was Rebuilt/modded and installed pumped in that 6.0 cooler and it restricted the flow through the cooler. The flow was restricted enough to cause heat to build at increased rpm.
Before anyone says the aluminum shavings were from the prior trans. They were not. Prior Trans and coolers were removed, the radiator cooler was also blown out plus bypassed.
I'm bought a new 6.0 cooler & threw it in after changing fluid & cleaning pan out twice.
I have no more heat issues.
My hopes: The Trans was not damaged during the summers I spent figuring this out.
Food for thought: I now see how If you had that Bypass eliminated your trans could be toasted before you could react to any sign on your Trans Temp guage. Listen to MARK K.
The pan and exhaust were not the issue either.
What did happen was a bunch of aluminum milling/shavings from inside the Trans or TQ converter when it was Rebuilt/modded and installed pumped in that 6.0 cooler and it restricted the flow through the cooler. The flow was restricted enough to cause heat to build at increased rpm.
Before anyone says the aluminum shavings were from the prior trans. They were not. Prior Trans and coolers were removed, the radiator cooler was also blown out plus bypassed.
I'm bought a new 6.0 cooler & threw it in after changing fluid & cleaning pan out twice.
I have no more heat issues.
My hopes: The Trans was not damaged during the summers I spent figuring this out.
Food for thought: I now see how If you had that Bypass eliminated your trans could be toasted before you could react to any sign on your Trans Temp guage. Listen to MARK K.
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