4r100 upgrades

[sleeps]

pulling out the trans, what upgrades should i look into doing to make it hold 5-600hp? ive heard of some just putting in a converter and valvebody and being good to go. should i look into clutces/shafts or anything else?

 

[co04cobra]

BTS or you'll prob be wasting your time. Still have that TV?

 

[dieselmandustin]

If you want to do it yourself and don't want to go thru the trouble of having all your backing plates milled, and snap rings milled and center support milled, drums milled and a few other things that bts does. Then get a alto red eagle rebuild kit. It adds more clutches to every drum without having anything milled. Get a billet input, a billet intermediate shaft and billet intermediate planetary. A precision converter. And a transgo tugger kit. I went with a sonnax boost valve for the pump it seems to make a little more pressure than the one that comes with the tugger kit. All of this can be bought from PATC. And use a good synthetic fluid. Shaeffers is a good choice. Good luck. Oh and a 4r100 book from atsg if you don't have one. The book is a must! Lol

 

[PABowhunter]

Noticed you're in Virginia Beach. You could give Twisted Diesel a call to see what they recommend.

Some guys go with a good tc and vb and hope for the best.

Mines been at 500+ hp for over a year on a stock 4r100 with a bts vb. I plan on replacing it sooner or later. I know I'm living on borrowed time, but I'm happy saving a little money for now. I don't work it really hard though either.

 

[mtsnowrunner]

Building it yourself probably won't work. Spend the money up front and it will be cheaper in the long run. Alto red eagles suck, I toasted them in short order. John Woods, BTS, or Twisted.

 

[dieselmandustin]

I just listed those as a suggestion. I'm running a bts in mine. It just takes forever to get one. Another company building trannies now is dynoproven. He is using full thickness clutches just like Bts and John wood and billet internals. Might give them a try. Don't remember the specifics but I think he has a decent warranty also.

 

[Isobaric]

Building it yourself probably won't work. Spend the money up front and it will be cheaper in the long run. Alto red eagles suck, I toasted them in short order. John Woods, BTS, or Twisted.

Why won't it work? It's a transmission, not brain surgery.

To the OP, measure everything as you take it apart. Figure out what is in spec and what is out, as well as what your desired stack-up tolerance is. Act accordingly.
There is nothing wrong with red eagle clutches and kolene steels. There are better available, but the above mentioned will hold 5-600hp if assembled properly.

 

[co04cobra]

Why won't it work? It's a transmission, not brain surgery.

To the OP, measure everything as you take it apart. Figure out what is in spec and what is out, as well as what your desired stack-up tolerance is. Act accordingly.
There is nothing wrong with red eagle clutches and kolene steels. There are better available, but the above mentioned will hold 5-600hp if assembled properly.

You got any proof to back that up? Many, many, good transmission builders have been humbled trying to get a 4r to live with less power then that.

 

[Isobaric]

You got any proof to back that up? Many, many, good transmission builders have been humbled trying to get a 4r to live with less power then that.

Proof to back what up? That there is no pixie dust involved in the proper operation of a E40D/4R100?
The only proof I have would be the transmission in my truck. I'm not in the business of building transmissions, nor do I want to be.
Precision TC, modified VB, billet shafts, modified hubs, snap rings added where needed and increased clutch count.
Been holding 525 to the wheels for 50,xxx now.

I'm a mechanical engineer by education and a vehicle calibration engineer by trade, so your mileage may vary.

Bottom line: If you have the drive to take something apart, study it, recognize the failure modes, chances are you can improve it.

 

[co04cobra]

Proof to back what up? That there is no pixie dust involved in the proper operation of a E40D/4R100?
The only proof I have would be the transmission in my truck. I'm not in the business of building transmissions, nor do I want to be.
Precision TC, modified VB, billet shafts, modified hubs, snap rings added where needed and increased clutch count.
Been holding 525 to the wheels for 50,xxx now.

I'm a mechanical engineer by education and a vehicle calibration engineer by trade, so your mileage may vary.

Bottom line: If you have the drive to take something apart, study it, recognize the failure modes, chances are you can improve it.

Proof as in, how many 4rs have you built to hold 600hp or trucks running in the 12s?

Not saying a individual can't do it, but if you don't have the extra time and money to do it over, then going to someone with a proven track record might be a good idea.

Most individuals will not get this trans modified correctly in their driveway. JMO.

 

[Isobaric]

Proof as in, how many 4rs have you built to hold 600hp or trucks running in the 12s?

Not saying a individual can't do it, but if you don't have the extra time and money to do it over, then going to someone with a proven track record might be a good idea.

Most individuals will not get this trans modified correctly in their driveway. JMO.

I will agree with you there.
The first time I built this transmission, I did not make any modifications to the coast clutch drum. That was an oversight on my part.

I guess I should reiterate my first post.
If you have the ability to do everything else correctly in the rebuild, there is nothing wrong with Alto clutches.

 

[bruce]

Are you doin a 4r100 swap or this a different truck than the one in your sig?

 

[mtsnowrunner]

Features of EVERY JOHN WOOD STREET PERFORMANCE TRANSMISSION:
• Custom Billet Triple Disc Torque Converter with Billet Stator
• Pump Mating Surfaces CNC Machined for Perfect Seal
• Hardened Gears Installed in Transmission Pump
• Coast Clutch Snap Ring Issue Fixed
• Center Support CNC Machined for Square Fit & Reduced Play
• Coast Clutch Modified for (1) Extra Clutch
• Overdrive Clutch Modified for (1) Extra Clutch
• Forward Drum Modified for (1) Extra Clutch
• Low/Reverse Modified for (1) Extra Clutch
• Direct Drum Modified for (1) Extra Clutch
• Intermediate Drum Modified for (1) Extra Clutch
• Custom Machined Billet Forward Drum
• Custom Machined Billet Input Shaft *
• Custom Machined Billet Intermediate Shaft *
• Modified Rear Planetary - Torrington Bearing Repl. Babbit Washer
• Welded/Reinforced Reverse Hub
• Custom Tuned Accumulator Body (valve body)
• Anti-Stick 2-3 Shift Valve in Main Valve Body
• Custom Low/Reverse Boost Spring in Main Valve Body
• Brand New OEM Ford Solenoid
• Custom Machined Chromoly Overdrive Planetary *
• Absolutely NO CHEAP OVERSEAS Upgrade Parts!

* These items are upgraded (as compared to the "Tow Master" Transmission)

ALL John Wood Transmissions include a 3 Year / Unlimited Mileage Warranty. Warranty covers Transmission Parts and Repair Labor (work performed by John Wood) and shipping both ways (if truck is not in JWs shop). Warranty does NOT cover any removal/reinstallation labor costs (unless the R&R is performed by John Wood in his shop). Transmission damage caused by "non-transmission" parts/failures are NOT covered (ex. Broken Trans Case from severely out of balance or damaged driveline, damage from vehicle accident, etc).

That list of parts and the warranty with good shipping prices is what made me decide he was the BEST option. And he answers the phone.

 

[Isobaric]

Features of EVERY JOHN WOOD STREET PERFORMANCE TRANSMISSION:
• Custom Billet Triple Disc Torque Converter with Billet Stator
• Pump Mating Surfaces CNC Machined for Perfect Seal
• Hardened Gears Installed in Transmission Pump
• Coast Clutch Snap Ring Issue Fixed
• Center Support CNC Machined for Square Fit & Reduced Play
• Coast Clutch Modified for (1) Extra Clutch
• Overdrive Clutch Modified for (1) Extra Clutch
• Forward Drum Modified for (1) Extra Clutch
• Low/Reverse Modified for (1) Extra Clutch
• Direct Drum Modified for (1) Extra Clutch
• Intermediate Drum Modified for (1) Extra Clutch
• Custom Machined Billet Forward Drum
• Custom Machined Billet Input Shaft *
• Custom Machined Billet Intermediate Shaft *
• Modified Rear Planetary - Torrington Bearing Repl. Babbit Washer
• Welded/Reinforced Reverse Hub
• Custom Tuned Accumulator Body (valve body)
• Anti-Stick 2-3 Shift Valve in Main Valve Body
• Custom Low/Reverse Boost Spring in Main Valve Body
• Brand New OEM Ford Solenoid
• Custom Machined Chromoly Overdrive Planetary *
• Absolutely NO CHEAP OVERSEAS Upgrade Parts!

* These items are upgraded (as compared to the "Tow Master" Transmission)

ALL John Wood Transmissions include a 3 Year / Unlimited Mileage Warranty. Warranty covers Transmission Parts and Repair Labor (work performed by John Wood) and shipping both ways (if truck is not in JWs shop). Warranty does NOT cover any removal/reinstallation labor costs (unless the R&R is performed by John Wood in his shop). Transmission damage caused by "non-transmission" parts/failures are NOT covered (ex. Broken Trans Case from severely out of balance or damaged driveline, damage from vehicle accident, etc).

That list of parts and the warranty with good shipping prices is what made me decide he was the BEST option. And he answers the phone.

I think everyone here knows JW builds a stout transmission.
I'm still curious as to why your feel Alto clutches are not robust enough for 500hp.

 

[mtsnowrunner]

I just toasted a Transmission that was supposedly built to handle everything I had and without beating on it or anything the 3rd and 4th gear clutches were burned up bad. I'm not a transmission expert and don't know the specifics but I know it was red eagle, kolene steels, extra clutches. No machining was done so I assume that thinner extra clutches were used. People that saw the clutches were shocked. That was with 4.10's 35's and 450HP. I needed my truck so I just told him to slap a simple rebuild together while I got a new one ordered. Now with Transmission #3 in 1 year going in I am wishing I would have just bought the JW in the first place.

After seeing the JW list of parts I realized there wasn't much of a chance that my local guy would be able to build something that stout with off the shelf local parts. After talking with a few people it sounds like lots of people try to throw misc. upgraded parts into these transmissions with similar results to mine.

 

[Arisley]

Unless you have the resources to machine stuff in your garage, or take it to a machine shop that will machine stuff to your specs, it would be really hard to build a 4R100 to hold up to 500HP in your driveway.

There is a guy down the road from me that builds transmissions. There are always heavy duty trucks in his parking lot. I have heard a lot of good things from his shop, I have talked to him. If I pay somebody to rebuild my trans, it will be him. Shop is close, warranty is good, and turn around time is fast.

I know John Woods and Brian and Twisted build a good transmission, but like the guy said, this aint rocket science, there are a lot of good transmission builders out there. While they may be known close to home, they don't have and actually don't want the notoriety of BTS. If they did, they would be in the same shape as Brian, no room to grow and taking on more work than they can put out.

 

[Ron's Power Stroke]

Transmissions usually in stock and ready to ship - short lead times if not

http://www.dieselsite.com/4r100heavydutytransmission.aspx


.....

 

[PABowhunter]

Any idea what the dieselsite trans is rated for?

 

[Vader's Fury]

I didn't know that Dieselsite had invested in transmissions to that degree. I think this will be where I look when I need a trans.

 

[Jennifer@Dieselsite]

Any idea what the dieselsite trans is rated for?

I wish I knew how to address this in just a simple answer but I'm still avoiding the transmission tech stuff while I focus on oil and air -

Anyone interested in what's going on in our transmissions and what they're capable of holding up to is more than welcome to call and ask for Bob or Dan to get a little more information. Someone will answer the phone but if they're unavailable just leave a message and we'll make sure they call you back.

There does at least seem to be a rule of thumb with the customers purchasing on when to upgrade to the billet shafts but again, I kind of suck at this still so best to call and ask for someone else.

Have fun!