5R110 repeat direct failure

[j.toney]

Just as it says,
-Suncoast kit with OE new direct solenoid the first time, set the direct clearance .055 ish. Lasted 3 months.
-Used Alto commercial direct pak 2nd time, increased clearance to .080 from worry of directs dragging. Lasted a little over 2 months.
All other frictions look good.
'08 6.4, H&S mini maxx, DPC converter.
I AM using merc 5 fluid, but was told by DPC and suncoast this is totally safe. And since others clutches look good, I tend to agree. But maybe the 3-5 ratio change is harder on the direct clutches than other shifts?
Is there a possibility of the trans tune causing an issue? Seems to work great up to the point of failure or just before. Lose reverse and 5th.

 

[Derkperk]

The 3-5 is the toughest one for the 5r. Tuning could have a lot to do with it. A lot of guys are changing the dd solenoid with a modified one to increase fluid flow/pressure.

 

[NathannialD]

we can set you up with a direct pack, as said above making sure the tuning is spot on really helps. Need to be sure there is no flairing or bind up during the 3/5 shift or it will kill the directs in a hurry.

 

[j.toney]

I guess I'm not fluent enough to really know if the tune IS or IS'NT working correctly. I'm wondering if I can watch shift times on my Snap-On Solus, once I go back through this and clutch it again and complete a re-learn.
I actually have an Empire Diesel D solenoid, have since I last installed this unit. But I wanted to try a back-to-back comparo. Truck isn't mine, and with conflicting schedules, the swap never happened. That said, it wasn't driven hard, and on the lowest tune. Which is why I'm curious about the H&S deal itself.
BTW, this is an ongoing issue. This unit in particular has had 2 fails now, but was swapped when I started working on it. So, we have 2 completely separate units, in the same truck, having same issues. And the current trans was a very clean deal to start with. Just wanna get this sorted and learn more about these and what it'll take to work with them Thanks!

 

[Luke@MillerPerformance]

I guess I'm not fluent enough to really know if the tune IS or IS'NT working correctly. I'm wondering if I can watch shift times on my Snap-On Solus, once I go back through this and clutch it again and complete a re-learn.
I actually have an Empire Diesel D solenoid, have since I last installed this unit. But I wanted to try a back-to-back comparo. Truck isn't mine, and with conflicting schedules, the swap never happened. That said, it wasn't driven hard, and on the lowest tune. Which is why I'm curious about the H&S deal itself.
BTW, this is an ongoing issue. This unit in particular has had 2 fails now, but was swapped when I started working on it. So, we have 2 completely separate units, in the same truck, having same issues. And the current trans was a very clean deal to start with. Just wanna get this sorted and learn more about these and what it'll take to work with them Thanks!

Might need to have an MCC tune made to tweak the trans some. Only other thing I can think of is if the tire size isn't programmed correctly these trucks will jump between 5 and 6 on hill with the TC locked and that kills the direct clutches in a hurry. I had a 6.0 do the same thing.

 

[Mark Kovalsky]

I AM using merc 5 fluid, but was told by DPC and suncoast this is totally safe.

That's a big red flag to me. I know that MERCON V can make solenoids stick. Sticky solenoids can destroy a clutch.

But maybe the 3-5 ratio change is harder on the direct clutches than other shifts?

Since the 3-5 shift is the only one that applies the direct clutch, it is the ONLY shift that makes any difference to the direct clutch. Making constant 6-5, 5-6 shifts will work the overdrive clutch, not the direct.

Is there a possibility of the trans tune causing an issue? Seems to work great up to the point of failure or just before. Lose reverse and 5th.

More than a possibility, I think that's probably the root cause of the failures.

 

[twitch02x]

I thought 5r110 is a 5 speed with lockup how does it have a 5-6 shift

 

[Derkperk]

1-2;2-3;3-5;5-6.

Hey Mark. What are your thoughts on the modified direct drive solenoid?

 

[weekendwarriorfsw32]

Also interested to see what mark thinks.

1-2;2-3;3-5;5-6.

Hey Mark. What are your thoughts on the modified direct drive solenoid?

 

[Mark Kovalsky]

I thought 5r110 is a 5 speed with lockup how does it have a 5-6 shift

It has six ratios, but only five are used. 4th gear is 1.09:1 and fifth is 1:1. It doesn't make sense to use both in any shift pattern.

4th is used when the trans is colder than 0°F. That's because we couldn't make the 3-5 shift work right at that cold temperature. Once the trans warms above 0°F it goes back to using 5th.

In a small window of vehicle speed the trans can make a 6-4 shift instead of a 6-5. It happens at a speed that is just a bit too high to make a 6-3. In this case 4th gear will give 10% more tractive effort at the wheels than 5th gear. From 4th it cannot shift to 5th, only 3rd or 6th.

Hey Mark. What are your thoughts on the modified direct drive solenoid?

I've heard of it, but that's it. I don't know anything about it.

 

[Dzchey21]

i think my truck has a stock solenoid as do many built transmissions out there.

I guess for me i would have to know what line pressure is, but assuming since none of the other clutches are burned that its good.

Is there anyway the direct piston seal is being installed backwards?

How does the truck shift, paying the most attention to the 3-5 shift or 4th gear as it feels in the truck? Is it soft? Or does it flare? how about really firm or almost seam to slow down for a sec while making the shift?

 

[j.toney]

i think my truck has a stock solenoid as do many built transmissions out there.

I guess for me i would have to know what line pressure is, but assuming since none of the other clutches are burned that its good.

Is there anyway the direct piston seal is being installed backwards?

How does the truck shift, paying the most attention to the 3-5 shift or 4th gear as it feels in the truck? Is it soft? Or does it flare? how about really firm or almost seam to slow down for a sec while making the shift?

The seal is molded to the pistons, so no, you can't install them backward.
After the re-learn, it seems to work smooth from what I can remember, no binding, dragging, or flares. Until its too late 2-3 months later.

 

[charlie-2]

My truck was re done with alto clutches and a triple disc tq along with a completely modified valve body. It's got an h and s tune on it and it shifts terrable. It dose flare. Before I installed the valve body it flared and shifted bad and after I installed it it shifted pretty bad also. I'm afraid I've already ruined the directs in my tranny but I think it might be tuning

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