Jon and I were doing some google searching earlier this week and I'm almost certain Brayden piped up in one of the threads that was specifically about using 6.4 turbos on a 6.0 and said "we have a controller for that" or something along those lines. Maybe Jons memory is better than mine...
6.0.4 revisited
- Thread starter TheReelMuhcoy
- Start date
Jon and I were doing some google searching earlier this week and I'm almost certain Brayden piped up in one of the threads that was specifically about using 6.4 turbos on a 6.0 and said "we have a controller for that" or something along those lines. Maybe Jons memory is better than mine...
yeah a standalone controller, this is my next suggestion, that should work, and just leave the vgt solenoid plugged in as if you were tuning for a non vgt. That should work. I'd talk to doug and brayden further about that.
What would a standalone controller cost? If its a one-off it will probably be pretty expensive...
I'm not trying to be a downer, I just don't see it being pheasants for a reasonable amount of money... Maybe a controller will be cheap and I'm wrong
I'm not trying to be a downer, I just don't see it being pheasants for a reasonable amount of money... Maybe a controller will be cheap and I'm wrong
TheReelMuhcoy
New member
I just spoke to Brayden. Yes Mike we did read that, and Brayden confirmed it. I would have to brig the truck in to them though. I tried to mention the thread where I read he would give a controller to someone who was looking to put 6.4 turbo's on the 6.0 but got nothing.... Was worth a shot. Price of the stand alone unit was around $900. I haven given up on a home brewed fix yet though.
-jon
-jon
IdahoF350
New member
Check into the guys running the 6.7 Cummins turbo on earlier 5.9s. The 6.7 turbos use an electro-mechanical VGT actuator much the same as the 6.4's. If that can't be made to work, dissect the controller and bypass the logic circuits and control the actuator directly. Either way, the turbo needs to be controlled independently and the truck needs to be tuned as if it were running fixed turbos.
I like this idea, especially if it can produce better results than say a Powermax, at close to the same price point.
I like this idea, especially if it can produce better results than say a Powermax, at close to the same price point.
Interesting, and much less than I was expecting :clapping:
Lubbockguy1979
Active member
Could you not swap a different device to actuate the turbos? Like possibly the 6.0 set up? Kind of miss match the pieces similar to the durastroke
TheReelMuhcoy
New member
Hey guys,
I try to check the forums at lunch time but its a PITA to respond from a eyePhone while you're eating a stromboli and trying to run a business. So i am going to try to compile all you're answers/responses to one post.
Mike, yes we DEFINATELY read somewhere that Fleece Perf. has a controller that will take care of these turbo's, I also spoke to Brayden today who also confirmed that his controller could do the trick. Cost of controller was around $900 and he said i would have to bring my truck to them and they would "make it work." (I have not yet given up on the home brewed fix yet tho.)
Pizza Pig, First off I love the avatar.... I'm not sure yet how the controller works just yet, but i would imagine yes the stock solenoid gets left behind to keep the PCM happy and the controller reads off all the existing sensors and does its own computing to tell the VGT what to do. If i must go controller route I will become more of a pest to the fella's at Fleece and get more information on how exactly it all will work.
Mortal, Not a "downer" just a rational notation of something that should be considered in this sort of project. Brayden quoted me a number (exact one when in one ear and out the other) around $900. See above note to Pizza Pig regarding the controller receiving input from PCM. Even if turbo controller is required i am at an estimated total of $2100. Still not bad for a turbo capable of 550+HP
Idaho, I will have to look into that regarding the 6.7 turbo's on 5.9's (that will be for another night however, tonight is movie night with the wife, she is already up my ass.) I like the way you think, you've dipped into my reserve stash there. When i finally get the turbo in my hands I will let you know what I find. regarding the Powermax turbo's, probably the cheapest turbo upgrade out there for the 6.0 if I recall correctly. What are they capable of power/pressure wise? I honestly haven't got a clue.
Lubbock, oh if it were that easy.... http://www.forddoctorsdts.com/articles/article-06-08.php if you care to read the difference between 6.0 and 6.4 VGT Actuators. Otherwise, quick run down... 6.0 uses a solenoid which diverts oil pressure to a piston which opens and closes the veins of the 6.0 turbo. The 6.4 has an electronicly actuated motor (duh why didn't we do this in the first place). Which is controlled (apparently) by a high speed buss network between the 6.4L PCM and the VGT electronics on the turbo. Simplified I would like to see if i can do this sort of idea but with electronics VS. swapping mechanicals.
09Stroker, that still doesn't manage the VGT. VGT and Wastegate's are two totally different animals. I do intend on installing a wastegate (maybe down the road) as 50PSI and no where to go could be dangerous. On that note, I am also thinking of the possibility of a re-circulation valve.. any thoughts?
Thanks for all the support fella's, stay tuned.
Jon
I try to check the forums at lunch time but its a PITA to respond from a eyePhone while you're eating a stromboli and trying to run a business. So i am going to try to compile all you're answers/responses to one post.
Mike, yes we DEFINATELY read somewhere that Fleece Perf. has a controller that will take care of these turbo's, I also spoke to Brayden today who also confirmed that his controller could do the trick. Cost of controller was around $900 and he said i would have to bring my truck to them and they would "make it work." (I have not yet given up on the home brewed fix yet tho.)
Pizza Pig, First off I love the avatar.... I'm not sure yet how the controller works just yet, but i would imagine yes the stock solenoid gets left behind to keep the PCM happy and the controller reads off all the existing sensors and does its own computing to tell the VGT what to do. If i must go controller route I will become more of a pest to the fella's at Fleece and get more information on how exactly it all will work.
Mortal, Not a "downer" just a rational notation of something that should be considered in this sort of project. Brayden quoted me a number (exact one when in one ear and out the other) around $900. See above note to Pizza Pig regarding the controller receiving input from PCM. Even if turbo controller is required i am at an estimated total of $2100. Still not bad for a turbo capable of 550+HP
Idaho, I will have to look into that regarding the 6.7 turbo's on 5.9's (that will be for another night however, tonight is movie night with the wife, she is already up my ass.) I like the way you think, you've dipped into my reserve stash there. When i finally get the turbo in my hands I will let you know what I find. regarding the Powermax turbo's, probably the cheapest turbo upgrade out there for the 6.0 if I recall correctly. What are they capable of power/pressure wise? I honestly haven't got a clue.
Lubbock, oh if it were that easy.... http://www.forddoctorsdts.com/articles/article-06-08.php if you care to read the difference between 6.0 and 6.4 VGT Actuators. Otherwise, quick run down... 6.0 uses a solenoid which diverts oil pressure to a piston which opens and closes the veins of the 6.0 turbo. The 6.4 has an electronicly actuated motor (duh why didn't we do this in the first place). Which is controlled (apparently) by a high speed buss network between the 6.4L PCM and the VGT electronics on the turbo. Simplified I would like to see if i can do this sort of idea but with electronics VS. swapping mechanicals.
09Stroker, that still doesn't manage the VGT. VGT and Wastegate's are two totally different animals. I do intend on installing a wastegate (maybe down the road) as 50PSI and no where to go could be dangerous. On that note, I am also thinking of the possibility of a re-circulation valve.. any thoughts?
Thanks for all the support fella's, stay tuned.
Jon
TheReelMuhcoy
New member
Forgot to ask...
I didn't quite expect so much response from everyone about this so, if by some miracle i do succeed. Is anyone else interested in doing the same? I am going to try to log all contributors and those interested in doing the same. If Interested in putting these on your truck i would like to keep you guys on the up and up as well as possibly offer a kit so PM me if you guys would be interested wish me luck.
Stroke'On
I didn't quite expect so much response from everyone about this so, if by some miracle i do succeed. Is anyone else interested in doing the same? I am going to try to log all contributors and those interested in doing the same. If Interested in putting these on your truck i would like to keep you guys on the up and up as well as possibly offer a kit so PM me if you guys would be interested wish me luck.
Stroke'On
07_powerstroke
New member
Interesting, good luck!
TheReelMuhcoy
New member
09Stroker,
Gotcha... I like the thought, but arent most wasegate's actuated by vacuum/boost lines? Take it another step forward, deleting the mechanical actuator from the turbo and replacing it with another actuator/servo that either responds or is adapted to the existing PCM output...
Gotcha... I like the thought, but arent most wasegate's actuated by vacuum/boost lines? Take it another step forward, deleting the mechanical actuator from the turbo and replacing it with another actuator/servo that either responds or is adapted to the existing PCM output...
saw a guy do this to a 6.7 cummins turbo on a honda civic. he said at 5000 rpm the vgt would open and he was off like a rocket
TheReelMuhcoy
New member
fftopic:I dont see this working at all, plus its not worth the time, I think under part throttle and towing loads youre going to have significant dead spots and lag.
Sometimes things arent worth the effort getting to work with home brewed ingenuity. I say follow up with fleece. But more power to you!
Im not entirely sure how the vgt conrollers work, but a buddy of mine has a fleece controller on his lb7 with one of their vgt cheetah's, im going to try and take a look at the setup this week if I have time. Im almost positive the controller communicates with the pcm for throttle position and rpm or even boost reference.
:toast:
TheReelMuhcoy
New member
Pig, I'm not sure exactly how it works. What Brayden said was that they would pick up on the necessary sensors to make it work. He didn'say whether or not it actually connected to the PCM or not though. I am going to dissect the VGT on the 6.4 first to see if it is even a possibility.
Jon
Jon
Lubbockguy1979
Active member
Ok since I didn't receive a awnser to my question. Why could you not modify what the 6.0 uses to control its vgt so that it would control the 6.4 vgt? Is there just not a way to make it work?
05wh250
New member
If im not mistaken the 6.4 uses an electric motor and the 6.0 uses lpo to move the veins.
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