6.0 arp custom age 625 head studs

kyle43335 · Apr 11, 2012

Nic said:
arent H11s infinitely reuseable?? or are regular ARPs considered H-11...:shrug:

h11s arent' considered arp.
arp uses h11 tool steel for some of their applications
h11 is h11 tool steel.
yes they are reuseable,but they are very prone to hydrogen embrittlement.
this means once rust,and pitting happen,the stud is junk.

that means that they are highly prone to pitting when exposed to moisture.

its recommended that those studs only be used in racing application,where the engine is torn down frequently,and inspection of the studs is possible.

in short,they're not recommended for street use, (h11 tool steel studs)

powerstrokedkid87 · Apr 11, 2012

we actually have a set on the way to us at the moment, were putting them into a 6.7 cummins though. Not sure i see the point in spending the 1500.00 for them, but when the customer is insisting...who am i to question him

kyle43335 · Apr 11, 2012

powerstrokedkid87 said:
we actually have a set on the way to us at the moment, were putting them into a 6.7 cummins though. Not sure i see the point in spending the 1500.00 for them, but when the customer is insisting...who am i to question him

h11 or 625s?

Zmann · Apr 11, 2012

kyle43335 said:
yes they are reuseable,but they are very prone to hydrogen embrittlement.
this means once rust,and pitting happen,the stud is junk.

that means that they are highly prone to pitting when exposed to moisture.

they either have hydrogen embrittlment or they don't when they are done being manufactured so I don't understand the "prone to " part ,, they won't become
"more "brittle later " due to Hydrogen ?

kyle43335 · Apr 11, 2012

Zmann said:
they either have hydrogen embrittlment or they don't when they are done being manufactured so I don't understand the "prone to " part ,, they won't become "more "brittle later " due to Hydrogen ?

they dont have hydrogen embrittlement when they're new. this would make junk out of the box.

when they are exposed to moisture. the stud corrodes easily damaging the stud.

that material isnt corrosion resistant to the elements of everyday drivers

powerstrokedkid87 · Apr 11, 2012

windrunner408 · Apr 11, 2012

Ok I'm not the smartest guy in the world here but I know a thing or two about "hydrogen embrittlement" and the main thing here is that it simply can not occur due to the simple process, which forms rust. Hydrogen Embrittlement can ONLY occur in the presence of Hydrogen gas which would most certainly NOT be present when a metal corrodes due to rust. This process would most likely only occur in the manufacturing process (if at all) since there is no other process by which it could occur naturally in the automotive world. Just to give you some perspective on this, metal has to expand A LOT due to temperature and hydrogen has to diffuse into the poors of the material and then the metal has to be cooled to cause it to contract and trap the hydrogen in the material thereby weakening it. There just simply isnt anyway this is going to happen. It has the possiblity to happen in pressurized water nuclear reactors (and they have ways to prevent that sort of thing) but not in our applications.

Sorry for the disortation but just needed to dispell this non-sense before it gets out of control. Also this isnt to say that the 625s or h11s are good for DD/street applications as I dont know enough to say something either way but I do know how H2 embrittlement occurs and it is simply at much higher temps and pressures than what our engines could ever experience.

Nic · Apr 11, 2012

kyle43335 said:
h11s arent' considered arp.
arp uses h11 tool steel for some of their applications
h11 is h11 tool steel.
yes they are reuseable,but they are very prone to hydrogen embrittlement.
this means once rust,and pitting happen,the stud is junk.

that means that they are highly prone to pitting when exposed to moisture.

its recommended that those studs only be used in racing application,where the engine is torn down frequently,and inspection of the studs is possible.

in short,they're not recommended for street use, (h11 tool steel studs)

...well crap..i had powerstroke magic here in houston install the elite diesel h-11s in mine...thought they were stronger.. :flush:

kyle43335 · Apr 11, 2012

windrunner408 said:
Ok I'm not the smartest guy in the world here but I know a thing or two about "hydrogen embrittlement" and the main thing here is that it simply can not occur due to the simple process, which forms rust. Hydrogen Embrittlement can ONLY occur in the presence of Hydrogen gas which would most certainly NOT be present when a metal corrodes due to rust. This process would most likely only occur in the manufacturing process (if at all) since there is no other process by which it could occur naturally in the automotive world. Just to give you some perspective on this, metal has to expand A LOT due to temperature and hydrogen has to diffuse into the poors of the material and then the metal has to be cooled to cause it to contract and trap the hydrogen in the material thereby weakening it. There just simply isnt anyway this is going to happen. It has the possiblity to happen in pressurized water nuclear reactors (and they have ways to prevent that sort of thing) but not in our applications.

Sorry for the disortation but just needed to dispell this non-sense before it gets out of control. Also this isnt to say that the 625s or h11s are good for DD/street applications as I dont know enough to say something either way but I do know how H2 embrittlement occurs and it is simply at much higher temps and pressures than what our engines could ever experience.

Ok then. The guy that i talked to at arp refrenced the term ( hydrogen embrittlement)

It that term was incorrect on his behalf? So be it.

Point is, h11 tool steel has poor resistance to corrosion.

If its used in a application where its condition is monitored?

Then it will be fine.

kyle43335 · Apr 11, 2012

Nic said:
...well crap..i had powerstroke magic here in houston install the elite diesel h-11s in mine...thought they were stronger.. :flush:

You should be ok.

Wayne · Apr 11, 2012

How many studs have any of you removed from a 6.0 engine that had rust on them anywhere beside the tops above the nut?:shrug: Me either. That brings us to a total of ZERO H-11 studs being compromised by rust.:hammer: They are an excellent stud for daily use, even in corrosion prone climates.

kyle43335 · Apr 11, 2012

Wayne said:
How many studs have any of you removed from a 6.0 engine that had rust on them anywhere beside the tops above the nut?:shrug: Me either. That brings us to a total of ZERO H-11 studs being compromised by rust.:hammer: They are an excellent stud for daily use, even in corrosion prone climates.

I have seen it a few times.

All that info was past along from arp directly.

I personally dont have any experiance with h11s directly, i never felt the need to use them.

Then as the threads started poping up with 6.4 failures, i dont believe ill ever use them in my,or customers vehicles. Especially when arp 2000 does the job fine.

Pizza pig · Apr 12, 2012

That whole ordeal with the 6.4 studs was the Elite/H11's were made from the same material as the arp's... all H11's for 6.0's are however actual H11 material.

Im a firm believer in the regular ARPs

motoxracer42 · Apr 12, 2012

ford head bolts ftw

kyle43335 · Apr 12, 2012

motoxracer42 said:
ford head bolts ftw

lol

kevin · Apr 12, 2012

motoxracer42 said:
ford head bolts ftw

Lol genius ! That might end up in my sig

Zmann · Apr 12, 2012

windrunner408 said:
Ok I'm not the smartest guy in the world here but I know a thing or two about "hydrogen embrittlement" .

sound pretty smart to Me

that is My understanding as well and why I wanted to mention it ..

now if you go get your head studs chromed that's a different story :shrug:

Maybe ARP rep meant to say the 625's are more susceptible to Hydrogen embrittlment when they are being manufactured?? IDK ,, but I imagine any company who deals with these processes can take measures to prevent it..

Ford Headbolts FTW :rockon: there is a Guy on here or PSN that had a HG failure and pulled His ARP's and went back to all stock:flush:

kyle43335 · Apr 12, 2012

Zmann said:
sound pretty smart to Me that is My understanding as well and why I wanted to mention it ..

now if you go get your head studs chromed that's a different story :shrug:

Maybe ARP rep meant to say the 625's are more susceptible to Hydrogen embrittlment when they are being manufactured?? IDK ,, but I imagine any company who deals with these processes can take measures to prevent it..

Ford Headbolts FTW :rockon: there is a Guy on here or PSN that had a HG failure and pulled His ARP's and went back to all stock:flush:

the embrittlement term was referenced to the h11 material

windrunner408 · Apr 12, 2012

Yea my whole point for referencing the H2 embrittlement is that it can only really occur at high pressures, high temperatures, AND in the presence of H2; which only has the possiblity of occurring in a manufacturing process and not naturally. I think more information needs to be explained by the ARP sales rep.

As far as h11s being more susceptible to corrosion, why not just paint the nuts and ends of the studs??

Nic · Apr 12, 2012

Wayne said:
How many studs have any of you removed from a 6.0 engine that had rust on them anywhere beside the tops above the nut?:shrug: Me either. That brings us to a total of ZERO H-11 studs being compromised by rust.:hammer: They are an excellent stud for daily use, even in corrosion prone climates.

makes me feel better...:joy: