6.0 injector stiction discussion

[Mdub707]

Kyle, you still haven't recommended an oil instead of Rotella...?

I've tried a few others, my truck simply runs better with the Rotella, but I definitely have been using it the longest, so maybe long term it does lead to stiction? Who knows. I do 5k mile oil changes with T6. When I was running the 15w-40 (pretty much ran this most of the trucks life) I was doing 3k miles. Mostly due to my vegistroke system, as a preventative procedure to catch if WVO was making it into the crankcase.

Something worth mentioning... fixed a customers older 7 pin FICM last night for him, cold start this morning truck is much quieter at idle, and it cleared up about 30% of my stiction. It's still there, just not anywhere near as bad as it was with my other FICM I had on there. Both test at 48V+ across the board.

 

[Atsah]

running to long on a current oil change, usually with a chit grade/quality oil.

the oil breaks down, and burns. if you have torn engine down in the past, even before heui engine existed, you would prolly have noticed the same brown colored varnish inside the engine, on everything oil touches.

the difference being before heui, that varnish never hurt anything, because all the oil was used for was lubrication. now that same oil is being used to fire the injector.

my point is, lack of maintenance on the owners shoulders is nothing new. combine that with chit oil, and you now have stiction.

the hundreds of 6l and 7.3, and heui cats i have had open, i can directly see who does good maintenance, and who doesnt. the people that do good. the brown varnish color is near non existant. the people that dont. that brown varnish is very dark, and all over everything.

i hope i explained that clear enough???

I never tore a 6.0 down but drove two of them long enough to know that 5K oil changes are essential with syn oil and 3K with conventional oil..

 

[Mdub707]

I went 8k miles one time on 15w-40 Rotella, changed it out with T6, noticed NO change in running or starting.

 

[Atsah]

I went 8k miles one time on 15w-40 Rotella, changed it out with T6, noticed NO change in running or starting.

It really depends on the overall condition of injectors and the motor as a whole IMO.. If you have injectors that have a little sticktion and you let the oil go a little longer than you should, it will magnify the sticktion issue and that is why people have different results from different oils and different change intervals..

 

[kyle43335]

Kyle, you still haven't recommended an oil instead of Rotella...?

actually i did. 04 stroker said he used valvoline. i replied that i use the same.

I've tried a few others, my truck simply runs better with the Rotella, but I definitely have been using it the longest, so maybe long term it does lead to stiction? Who knows. I do 5k mile oil changes with T6. When I was running the 15w-40 (pretty much ran this most of the trucks life) I was doing 3k miles. Mostly due to my vegistroke system, as a preventative procedure to catch if WVO was making it into the crankcase.

Something worth mentioning... fixed a customers older 7 pin FICM last night for him, cold start this morning truck is much quieter at idle, and it cleared up about 30% of my stiction. It's still there, just not anywhere near as bad as it was with my other FICM I had on there. Both test at 48V+ across the board.

I went 8k miles one time on 15w-40 Rotella, changed it out with T6, noticed NO change in running or starting.

running 8k on rotella 1 time, i wouldn't expect any issues.

 

[Mdub707]

running 8k on rotella 1 time, i wouldn't expect any issues.

Oops, sorry I missed the valvoline recommendation.

I tried Valvoline 15w-40 one time, worst oil I've run to date in this truck. Ran noticeably rougher, harder starting, a complete slug until up to temperature. That one only made it about 1700 miles before I couldn't take it anymore and went back to my 15w-40 Rotella. I only originally got it to try because it was on sale and everyone raved about premium blue. However, I know most guys use the 5w-40 synthetic and love it, but the non-synthetic was just horrid IMO. At least on this truck. Seems different trucks have different appetites for what oil they like.

It's also worth noting I've had 6 of 8 injectors replaced on this truck under warranty. I only had one that completely failed on me, it literally just stopped working completely. One they replaced when I was bringing it in constantly for rough running, though it didn't even fix anything. Another time they replaced 4 and a fuel pump. I couldn't even tell you why they did that, I had no issues going on related to that stuff, but I wasn't going to argue. So, I only have 2 of the original 8, @ 113k miles. I'm curious to see if those two are the one's causing my stiction issues right now.

 

[Snake]

Here's where I question the maintenance or oil quality leading to stiction. I've run Valvoline Premium Blue Extreme (5w-40 full synthetic) since 2007 and I change my oil every 5,000 miles (without exception). I've never had an oil analysis that was less than satisfactory and yet I have injector stiction. BTW, all 8 of my current injectors were installed in 2009 ("new" Ford injectors, 100% stock).

 

[04stroker]

Here's where I question the maintenance or oil quality leading to stiction. I've run Valvoline Premium Blue Extreme (5w-40 full synthetic) since 2007 and I change my oil every 5,000 miles (without exception). I've never had an oil analysis that was less than satisfactory and yet I have injector stiction. BTW, all 8 of my current injectors were installed in 2009 ("new" Ford injectors, 100% stock).

I don't think he is saying that makes Stiction impossible just doesn't happen as fast. I've seen some people with poor oil and change intervals have Stiction on brand new ford injectors in a matter of months.

 

[kyle43335]

I don't think he is saying that makes Stiction impossible just doesn't happen as fast. I've seen some people with poor oil and change intervals have Stiction on brand new ford injectors in a matter of months.

correct. you cant prevent varnishing. its impossible. its just one of the downfalls to heui.

fyi stiction/ sticky injectors also happens on 7.3s also.

 

[Snake]

I don't think he is saying that makes Stiction impossible just doesn't happen as fast. I've seen some people with poor oil and change intervals have Stiction on brand new ford injectors in a matter of months.

correct. you cant prevent varnishing. its impossible. its just one of the downfalls to heui.

fyi stiction/ sticky injectors also happens on 7.3s also.

Makes sense. Definitely appreciate the clarification! Thanks!

 

[Fordguy100]

Mobil 1 TDT 5w40 is what I run.

I would like to pull the injectors and do this, along with o-rings and what not.

 

[Cold Roller]

In general, premium lubricating oils are finished by hydrogen finishing (hydrofinishing) units which eliminate the polar sites in the oil molecules and improve their thermal stability and oxidation stability and lighten their color. Further hydrotreating thermally polymerizes the polyalphaolefins which results in a water white product which has a high viscosity index and a low pour point.

The properties of the synthetic lubricating oils present an improvement over the properties of the known simple polyalphaolefin lubricating oils in that the product can withstand more severe thermal conditions. Additionally, the thermal polymerization product has a lesser tendency to form deposits when exposed to the severe operating conditions found in a diesel engine. ref: http://www.freepatentsonline.com/5171908.html

So, the more polyalphaolefins chains, and the clearer the oil the better. Unfortunately, many of the oils sold as true synthetics are not, but they are close! Some varnish is inevitable; the shear and heat of oil in the injectors at high ICP mixing with impurities, like fuel and other contaminants, further hastens the process. The same can be said of oxidation formed if the oil sits too long in one position. Hence the problem associated with infrequently used vehicles and used oil.

I know many of you can not get this oil in the USA unless you come for a visit, but do a search for CO-OP Synthetic D-MO Gold SL 0w40. If the oil is similar in design, it would be your best choice for an oil, especially with HEUI.

FYI, in my video referenced above, I noted the slight torque used to secure the 4mm nut, 0.5Nm. The old injectors typically were hard to crack the nut loose, to the point of me thinking I might break the small bolt on removal! However, they did all come loose without damage. All of the reman injectors I checked were all very close to the 0.5Nm or slightly more. I doubt any of these were torqued with a measuring device.

 

[lenzhotrod]

I use to work with hydraulic spool valves way back when. We had a "stiction problem also slowing down valve actuation. The manufacturers fix for it was a small groove cut in the end of the spool. It was explained like this, If you put a drop of oil between two sheets of glass they stick, If you have a groove in one surface the "stiction" is alot less. I do know it worked. Could we maybe cut a groove on the ends of the spools? I think the Stiction could be from the highly polished ends sticking to the coils. Wish I had more time to play with the idea.

 

[Cold Roller]

The manufacturers fix for it was a small groove cut in the end of the spool.

That might help. The same cold be said for rounding it slightly as well.

 

[Pizza pig]

the coils were updated to have a grove on one side, not the spool itself though.

 

[POWER-STRUCK]

my assumption is that the grove was placed on the coil to allow new oil to flow thru the recesses and the detergents in the new oil will help clean the spool.

 

[Lassie]

I use to work with hydraulic spool valves way back when. We had a "stiction problem also slowing down valve actuation. The manufacturers fix for it was a small groove cut in the end of the spool. It was explained like this, If you put a drop of oil between two sheets of glass they stick, If you have a groove in one surface the "stiction" is alot less. I do know it worked. Could we maybe cut a groove on the ends of the spools? I think the Stiction could be from the highly polished ends sticking to the coils. Wish I had more time to play with the idea.

That's a good idea, but the reason stiction worsens at higher mileage is wear on the horizontal surfaces of the spool valve. When a larger volume of oil can get between the valve and valve body, stiction gets worse. But this groove could also be cut along the length of the valve....Couldn't it???

 

[Mdub707]

I already had that exact thought with putting the groove in the spool valve itself... nice place for the oil to evacuate quickly.

 

[Cold Roller]

hat's a good idea, but the reason stiction worsens at higher mileage is wear on the horizontal surfaces of the spool valve. When a larger volume of oil can get between the valve and valve body, stiction gets worse. But this groove could also be cut along the length of the valve....Couldn't it???

No..no..no! You can't have any pressurized bleed-by on the horizontal surface. If pressure hit the coils would break them. There is already some minimal bleed-by.

 

[POWER-STRUCK]

the groove is placed on the coil surface