6.0 VGT compounds FTW!!!

[Bad_company]

how'd you get the exhaust side of the second turbo to route back behind the motor? (forgive my noob post...) but on my 6.0 it doesn't look like theres enough room for anything else back there? mod the fire wall?

 

[KCTurbos]

how'd you get the exhaust side of the second turbo to route back behind the motor? (forgive my noob post...) but on my 6.0 it doesn't look like theres enough room for anything else back there? mod the fire wall?

It routes through the passenger fender well under the a/c box

 

[Bad_company]

OHHHH clever!!!! what supporting mods do you have? if you don't mind me asking... I'm trying to learn as much as possible... im on my second 6.0 and I learned a lot from my first one but mostly the hard way... id like to learn in the right way this time

 

[KCTurbos]

OHHHH clever!!!! what supporting mods do you have? if you don't mind me asking... I'm trying to learn as much as possible... im on my second 6.0 and I learned a lot from my first one but mostly the hard way... id like to learn in the right way this time

Truck has a lot of supporting mods... Basically everything except forged rods. Here are some of the basics

Engine:
bored .040 over
delipped pistons with valve reliefs
stage 2 colt came
upgraded valve springs
oring heads
arp 625s
upgraded push rods

Trans:
Andy Warren Full Billet 5r
DPC quad disck 1800 stall

Fuel:
Beans Sump
AD4g
STOCK FUEL BOWL
custom 4 line feed kit
250/75 conventional injectors
Thumper 2 pump

Air:
KC stage 2r vgt HP turbo
s476sxe 1.10ar with 96x88 turbine LP turbo
CED Compound kit
Odawg ported intake

Traction:
Trutrac LSD rear end
PMF traction bars
Bald AT tires

 

[Bad_company]

Truck has a lot of supporting mods... Basically everything except forged rods. Here are some of the basics

Engine:
bored .040 over
delipped pistons with valve reliefs
stage 2 colt came
upgraded valve springs
oring heads
arp 625s
upgraded push rods

Trans:
Andy Warren Full Billet 5r
DPC quad disck 1800 stall

Fuel:
Beans Sump
AD4g
STOCK FUEL BOWL
custom 4 line feed kit
250/75 conventional injectors
Thumper 2 pump

Air:
KC stage 2r vgt HP turbo
s476sxe 1.10ar with 96x88 turbine LP turbo
CED Compound kit
Odawg ported intake

Traction:
Trutrac LSD rear end
PMF traction bars
Bald AT tires

Jeeze! ok so again please excuse the noob in me... passenger side feeds driver side? or vise versa?

 

[FaSSt9602]

Jeeze! ok so again please excuse the noob in me... passenger side feeds driver side? or vise versa?

Exhaust travels through stock turbo first and on to the larger low pressure turbo in the fender.

Intake air starts off with the low pressure and pipes to the stock (high pressure) turbo, and then into the engine.

 

[Bad_company]

Exhaust travels through stock turbo first and on to the larger low pressure turbo in the fender.

Intake air starts off with the low pressure and pipes to the stock (high pressure) turbo, and then into the engine.

ok I totally misunderstood what compounds meant then... I always thought compounds were like "inline" with one "feeding" the other... does compound just mean two different size turbos?

 

[FaSSt9602]

ok I totally misunderstood what compounds meant then... I always thought compounds were like "inline" with one "feeding" the other... does compound just mean two different size turbos?

You are still correct. The low pressure, bigger turbo, feeds the high pressure, smaller turbo (in the case a missed VGT) a steady supply of pre-pressurized air that it feeds to the engine at a higher pressure.

 

[sootie]

ok I totally misunderstood what compounds meant then... I always thought compounds were like "inline" with one "feeding" the other... does compound just mean two different size turbos?

exactly. thats what he described.

 

[Bad_company]

exactly. thats what he described.

Sorry Im Dumb Lol... So They do not "Feed" each other Correct?

 

[sootie]

Sorry Im Dumb Lol... So They do not "Feed" each other Correct?

Huh? Have you looked at any pics of a compound setup?

Exhaust comes from the manifolds into the factory turbine housing. (this spools the primary or smaller turbo and gets you into boost off the line) The exhaust then exits the factory turbine housing and travels to the atmosphere or larger turbo and spools that. (by the time the primary or smaller turbo is reaching the top end of its efficiency range, the atmosphere is taking over the boost production lol) The exhaust then leaves the atmosphere turbine and exits out the exhaust.

Intake air comes in thru the filter on the atmosphere or larger turbo and is compressed and forced thru (aka "feeds") the primary or smaller turbo, to the intercooler and then into the engine.

That is a typical "compound setup".


Triples are the same theory with some merged piping to facilitate the additional snail.


Twins are different altogether which usually consist of two identical turbos, isolated from each other entirely, with the exception of the intake manifold where boost from each is combined prior to entering the engine. (each turbo driven by a single manifold and exhausting spent gasses thru individual exhaust downpipes for each turbo) The challenge with this setup is having big enough turbos to make power while still being small enough to spool. More common in the gas world than diesel. most often seen on "V" engines due to having two exhaust manifolds.

 

[Bad_company]

Huh? Have you looked at any pics of a compound setup?

Exhaust comes from the manifolds into the factory turbine housing. (this spools the primary or smaller turbo and gets you into boost off the line) The exhaust then exits the factory turbine housing and travels to the atmosphere or larger turbo and spools that. (by the time the primary or smaller turbo is reaching the top end of its efficiency range, the atmosphere is taking over the boost production lol) The exhaust then leaves the atmosphere turbine and exits out the exhaust.

Intake air comes in thru the filter on the atmosphere or larger turbo and is compressed and forced thru (aka "feeds") the primary or smaller turbo, to the intercooler and then into the engine.

That is a typical "compound setup".


Triples are the same theory with some merged piping to facilitate the additional snail.


Twins are different altogether which usually consist of two identical turbos, isolated from each other entirely, with the exception of the intake manifold where boost from each is combined prior to entering the engine. (each turbo driven by a single manifold and exhausting spent gasses thru individual exhaust downpipes for each turbo) The challenge with this setup is having big enough turbos to make power while still being small enough to spool. More common in the gas world than diesel. most often seen on "V" engines due to having two exhaust manifolds.

This is exactly what I was looking for... thank you.

 

[KCTurbos]

sootie is spot on.

I will add that "twins" dont work on diesels.

Compounds and twins are totally different

A big turbo feeding a little turbo is compounds

Twins are running two of the same size turbo, one on each bank.



Compounds make more boost, which is what diesels need. They have a short rpm band so you need to cram all the air you can into the motor as fast as you can. Compounds will basically "compound" the boost pressure going into the motor. That is why you see compounds on diesel trucks.

Twins increase the "flow", but not the boost. This is needed in gas vehicles that run really high rpms because you need more flow to make it all the way up to 8000rpms, not more boost. So twin turbos increase the flow/rpms range.



So... you still think you wanna run twin turbos and are curious what it will do. Or maybe you just wanna be different? Well you are just going to end up with each turbo surging like crazy. Too much boost at too low of rpms on a bigger turbo will cause it to surge. If you put one stock vgt turbo on each bank, and plot it on a compressor map... then you will end up WAY left of the surge line. The only way to not make the truck NOT surge would be to keep boost under 7 psi until about 3000rpms, and then by 3500rpms you will be able to jump boost up to around 10psi of boost. By 4000rpms you might be able to squeeze about 12psi of boost. According to my calculations... with all the fuel you can throw at it you will be able to make about 280hp MAX with that setup. (not 280 additional HP, but just 280rwhp)

So why would anyone run twins? Well with that same twin setup you can run 30psi of boost at 8000rpms... which would make about 1000hp if you could spin up to those rpms... which is possible in a v8 gas motor but not in a diesel.



On the other hand COMPOUNDS can make 65psi of boost by 2900rpms and carry that to 4000rpms. This give more boost in the short RPM band that we need it.

 

[Bad_company]

gotcha! so whats the highest psi YOU'VE seen out of your compounds? and what do you think each turbo is running for psi? (again I know I'm a noob and all these replys are probably annoying but this set up is awesome. I wanna learn as much as possibly) also... ecm had to be tuned for the additional turbo right?

 

[Cutting-Edge Diesel]

sootie is spot on.

I will add that "twins" dont work on diesels.

Compounds and twins are totally different

A big turbo feeding a little turbo is compounds

Twins are running two of the same size turbo, one on each bank.



Compounds make more boost, which is what diesels need. They have a short rpm band so you need to cram all the air you can into the motor as fast as you can. Compounds will basically "compound" the boost pressure going into the motor. That is why you see compounds on diesel trucks.

Twins increase the "flow", but not the boost. This is needed in gas vehicles that run really high rpms because you need more flow to make it all the way up to 8000rpms, not more boost. So twin turbos increase the flow/rpms range.



So... you still think you wanna run twin turbos and are curious what it will do. Or maybe you just wanna be different? Well you are just going to end up with each turbo surging like crazy. Too much boost at too low of rpms on a bigger turbo will cause it to surge. If you put one stock vgt turbo on each bank, and plot it on a compressor map... then you will end up WAY left of the surge line. The only way to not make the truck NOT surge would be to keep boost under 7 psi until about 3000rpms, and then by 3500rpms you will be able to jump boost up to around 10psi of boost. By 4000rpms you might be able to squeeze about 12psi of boost. According to my calculations... with all the fuel you can throw at it you will be able to make about 280hp MAX with that setup. (not 280 additional HP, but just 280rwhp)

So why would anyone run twins? Well with that same twin setup you can run 30psi of boost at 8000rpms... which would make about 1000hp if you could spin up to those rpms... which is possible in a v8 gas motor but not in a diesel.



On the other hand COMPOUNDS can make 65psi of boost by 2900rpms and carry that to 4000rpms. This give more boost in the short RPM band that we need it.

fastest door car diesels have twins just saying oke:

Im trying to change that though imp:

 

[KCTurbos]

fastest door car diesels have twins just saying oke:

Im trying to change that though imp:

Any idea what rpms are they spinning at? Probably not the 3000-4500 that most cummins/dmax/powerstroke see. I have plotted it multiple times and it never makes sense to run twins on the short rpm band we use.


I am excited for you mustang!

 

[KCTurbos]

gotcha! so whats the highest psi YOU'VE seen out of your compounds? and what do you think each turbo is running for psi? (again I know I'm a noob and all these replys are probably annoying but this set up is awesome. I wanna learn as much as possibly) also... ecm had to be tuned for the additional turbo right?

On my fuel full race tune I see about 65psi max

On my heavy street tune I see about 55psi


I am not sure how much "each" turbo is putting out. I plan to put a gauge on the LP turbo here soon to see how much it is. If I had to guess then I would say about 15-20psi out of the LP and then the HP turns it into 65psi.

 

[Bad_company]

How are you supplying the passenger side turbo with oil?

 

[KCTurbos]

How are you supplying the passenger side turbo with oil?

I T'd off of the HP turbo feed line.
Oil drain is into the upper part of the oil pan

 

[Bad_company]

gotcha... thanks for putting up with me and dumb questions. awesome set up man.