6.4 Head Gasket solution

[V-Ref]

What's the 1000% right answer for a bullet proof daily driver?

Application- Right now it's just a tuned/deleted/exhaust truck that's driven like a grandpa, but eventually....I know myself :fordoval:

But eventually, it'd be as far as you can take a single pump/stock nozzles with supporting air, on a factory short block.

So for the purpose of this thread, request you'd orient your recommendation/experiences to that...a factory short block/single pump/stock nozzles/supporting air.

H13s look like a great head stud....but can you even use the additional clamping force with the 6.4 cracked block syndrome folks have been experiencing? I know there's opinions that say this is from hydraulic fracturing due to excessive lubrication in the block, or the stud rotating/bottoming out during the final fastener torque step....

How about O-Ring'ing the head (or block), to press down on the existing factory head gasket fire ring, and using a reduced torque like Dave at Swamps posted here....how many folks are happy with that? Lots of folks run this on the 5.9 platform and are happy with it.

Or Fire Rings, where the fire ring is cut out of a factory/aftermarket HG, and both the block deck and head are machined to accomodate a SS ring....lots of folks run this on the 7.3 as high hp DD and are happy with it.

If you wanted to lift the cab once, and do this right....what's the right answer for this application?

Thanks in advance for the comments & discussion.

 

[97stoker350]

Stock fuel you'd probably be alright with just studding it given the job is done right

 

[Fordtrucks]

Any stud with factory gaskets will be plenty good enough. I'm running ARPs. IMO, the stronger studs on the market may hold more power than say ARP but with stock fuel your a long ways from stretching even an ARP.

 

[weekendwarriorfsw32]

Any studs will be fine with stock gaskets. You should be more worried about pistons.

 

[V-Ref]

Any studs will be fine with stock gaskets. You should be more worried about pistons.

Pistons.......hopefully not for this motor. Address that with a builder motor on the side that'll get the whole deal.

 

[co04cobra]

Pistons WILL be an issue. If you "hope" to do it once plan on doing them when the cab is up.


HG failure is not the only concern either on a 6.4. Cracked heads are another issue. I personally just changed mine over to a set that is ceramic coated to hopefully help with that issue.

Personally I don't think stud choice is as big an issue as the final TQ. IMO it needs to be over 210-215. Thread sealant on the bottoms of the studs is probably a good idea too.

 

[madman1234509]

A lot of trucks have juat used arp and made huge power. To be honest h13 have not proven themselves. And again, plenty of people have made huge power without o ringing there heads. And honestly until recently I havent heard of anyone really doing it. Whatever stud you use. Make sure you are using a good high quality torque wrench that it calibrated properly and torque it as the directions for that stud state. Not more, not less. A lot of blocks cracking have been due to intaller error or improperly calibrated torque wrenches... We bought a brand new, abd pretty expensive snap on torque wrench just to do my truck so we knew itd be correct

 

[V-Ref]

Pistons WILL be an issue. If you "hope" to do it once plan on doing them when the cab is up.


HG failure is not the only concern either on a 6.4. Cracked heads are another issue. I personally just changed mine over to a set that is ceramic coated to hopefully help with that issue.

Personally I don't think stud choice is as big an issue as the final TQ. IMO it needs to be over 210-215. Thread sealant on the bottoms of the studs is probably a good idea too.

I'm hoping to stud it...and drive it responsibly until a builder motor is put together.

Do you have pics of where yours cracked...I remember reading your thread a while back.

Lots of different opinions out there on the final tq spec and head stud install vs cracked blocks....

 

[V-Ref]

A lot of trucks have juat used arp and made huge power. To be honest h13 have not proven themselves. And again, plenty of people have made huge power without o ringing there heads.

I hear you...ARP is proven company for sure. Having a HG let loose on a 7.3 with A1 H11s....was a hard lesson that install is an important component...

The reason I threw O ring in the mix...is it may allow for a lower overall final tq spec....without tweaking the block. You just don't hear of 7.3/6.0 blocks cracking after a stud install....it's hard for me to think this is a 100% install error issue with the 6.4

Thanks for all the opinions thusfar.

 

[madman1234509]

Well, if it isnt installer error, we dont have any idea if this is an isolated issue with a certain production run of blocks or anything. The couple scares you hear about are no where near the amount of trucks that have actually been studded. I wouldnt be too concerned with lowering torque spec even if you did o ring it id still say torque it to what the instructions say. Someone a lot smarter than I made the decision on why a certain stud should be torqued to a certain spec.

 

[co04cobra]

I'm hoping to stud it...and drive it responsibly until a builder motor is put together.

Do you have pics of where yours cracked...I remember reading your thread a while back.

Lots of different opinions out there on the final tq spec and head stud install vs cracked blocks....

My heads, luckily, weren't cracked. I just didn't have enough time to take them off and have them checked before I needed to finish the job. I had heard sooo many stories about cracked heads I didn't want to chance it. So I bought another set, had them coated, and ready to bolt on just in case.


My gaskets were blown and fwiw I think its because the final TQ on my studs when installed was 190. We went back to 230. I believe also they were VR gaskets too. When you go to turning up the power I would go with OEM on the HGs.

 

[Fordtrucks]

When I put my ARPs in the second time I decided to call ARP and ask some questions. He told me that I can reuse the studs as many times as I want but what was important was that I always re torque to the same spec. He told me if I TQ to a lesser value, the stud won't be stretched enough so it won't hold the power and he said to never TQ above there spec because then its stretched to far and won't hold. He said the guys that reuse there studs but go an extra 10 pounds every time or whatever are idiots and are asking for a bolt to fail.

 

[co04cobra]

When I put my ARPs in the second time I decided to call ARP and ask some questions. He told me that I can reuse the studs as many times as I want but what was important was that I always re torque to the same spec. He told me if I TQ to a lesser value, the stud won't be stretched enough so it won't hold the power and he said to never TQ above there spec because then its stretched to far and won't hold. He said the guys that reuse there studs but go an extra 10 pounds every time or whatever are idiots and are asking for a bolt to fail.

That makes complete sense. If there has been a failure, and there is any chance the stud may have been over tq it is junk. IMO.

Using the specified lube for whichever stud you choose, I think, is also very important.

My point being, there has to be a minimum TQ for any stud with the kind of cylinder pressures the 6.4 sees vs # of bolts. Just like there is that point where you go over and the stud is then junk. I think it would extremely hard to get any HG to last with a high HP truck with less than 210+.


V-ref,- I am only speaking on terms of neither O-rings nor fire rings. I think if done correctly, once sealed, fire rings would be hard to beat. Then TQ value for the stud would/could be different.

You should give Morgan at Midwest a call. Great guy to work with and very knowledgeable.

 

[Danny26]

My heads, luckily, weren't cracked. I just didn't have enough time to take them off and have them checked before I needed to finish the job. I had heard sooo many stories about cracked heads I didn't want to chance it. So I bought another set, had them coated, and ready to bolt on just in case.


My gaskets were blown and fwiw I think its because the final TQ on my studs when installed was 190. We went back to 230. I believe also they were VR gaskets too. When you go to turning up the power I would go with OEM on the HGs.

Those gaskets should of been OEM, glad to hear the heads weren't cracked! Sorry for the mess man that truck should of held up way better...

 

[Fordtrucks]

I think all the different studs out there all have the same clamping force but they just require a different amount of TQ to achieve that clamp. Not saying some aren't stronger than others.. Lots of trucks making way over a thousand on OEM gaskets and ARPs..