76MM ball bearing turbo VS. stock journal bearing

08BIGRIG · Jan 24, 2014

All I know is that the High powers from Elite with the 76mm ball bearing charger are absolutely amazing on the street. They light increadably quick

MorganY · Jan 24, 2014

Greg@MPD said:
Did you see the difference on your truck or just between yours and Kalebs?

Turbine wheels are vastly different sizes too, gt35 turbine inducer is 68mm where as the borg charger you run was a 76mm inducer (if its the 68 exducer wheel that everyone runs, huge difference.

Cant exactly compare 6.7 to a 6.0 either. My brothers duramax with a box 66 drives like a stock truck and zero smoke and makes boost at 1300 rpm, mine doesnt make boost until 17-1800 Apples to Rice Cakes comparison.

No. Im comparing from personal bench, distributor word of mouth, and second-hand engineering experience.

The 300rpm claim comes from a few distributors that have done back to back testing with comparable units using a 5.9 as the test rig.

I would never attempt to make an assertion based off of two entirely different engine's performance. You know me better than that....

From a bench:

- Explain how an 80mm GTX CHRA will accelerate faster with the propulsion held constant, than a s300 BW CHRA with less rotational mass.

Friction. Much less of it with a BB unit. Makes for huge gains in spool up down low.

You know how much mass Garrett's turbine wheels have too compared to a BW.....Throw a 478 BW in with a GTX 4508 and its laughable.

B585Ford · Jan 24, 2014

forcefed6.4ford said:
Looking forward to donig mine....

View attachment 25399

Specs?

forcefed6.4ford · Jan 24, 2014

GTX4202R with a 1.0 housing.

White_monster · Jan 24, 2014

forcefed6.4ford said:
GTX4202R with a 1.0 housing.

Your setup will be fun. Plans in the works chief.

forcefed6.4ford · Jan 24, 2014

Ive got a 0.92 too, depending on how well the GTX lights. Still looking for the 4088 haha

stroker 6.4 · Jan 24, 2014

smoker00 said:
I love the BB stuff. Has worked for me..lol

even after popping one. Still went back to BB.

I would like to see a big BB on a high HP 6.4 see how it would do..

No luck at MPD with them?

In the process of puttin a gtx4508r on my 6.4

Mike@MPD · Jan 24, 2014

The 4508 on Craigs truck spooled like sh1t from what I found driving a 75 80mm and 4508. The 4508 was also the slowest running turbo on king Kong

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MorganY · Jan 24, 2014

Mike@MPD said:
The 4508 on Craigs truck spooled like sh1t from what I found driving a 75 80mm and 4508. The 4508 was also the slowest running turbo on king Kong

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Lasted the longest. Less friction on the shaft. Plain and simple. Ball bearing > Journal.

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Mike@MPD · Jan 24, 2014

Still blew sky high like the rest of them. Ran a 11.3 with it and a 10.80 with the 75. Didn't last THAT much longer. Couldn't sell me on one.

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Morgan@Midwest Diesel & Auto · Jan 24, 2014

Mike@MPD said:
Still blew sky high like the rest of them. Ran a 11.3 with it and a 10.80 with the 75. Didn't last THAT much longer. Couldn't sell me on one.

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Gtx 4508r? Or gt?

Morgan@Midwest Diesel & Auto · Jan 24, 2014

It seems the larger turbos don't make as much difference. But the small ones benefit a lot more. I believe it's because the larger ones have so much mass to begin with that the bearings don't make as significant of a difference.

But take a cast bw 66/71/.84 vs gtx3582r 62.5/68/.84..... That gtx outflows and outperforms it in every way, except price.

MorganY · Jan 24, 2014

Sledpull said:
It seems the larger turbos don't make as much difference. But the small ones benefit a lot more. I believe it's because the larger ones have so much mass to begin with that the bearings don't make as significant of a difference.

But take a cast bw 66/71/.84 vs gtx3582r 62.5/68/.84..... That gtx outflows and outperforms it in every way, except price.

Indeed. My 478 compared to a 4508 GTX on a bench is embarassing.

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Pizza pig · Jan 25, 2014

on a bench, put it in a truck and real world test it, and take it down the track

Matt · Jan 25, 2014

MorganY said:
Indeed. My 478 compared to a 4508 GTX on a bench is embarassing.

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Isn't putting two turbos on a bench with no oil in them kind of a bad way to say which is gonna spool quicker?

09stroker · Jan 25, 2014

Matt said:
Isn't putting two turbos on a bench with no oil in them kind of a bad way to say which is gonna spool quicker?

Why do you say that?

mustube · Jan 25, 2014

The journal bearing turbo uses a film of oil for the shaft to ride on. Its like getting your truck sideways, it's a lot easier if the road is wet and you have a layer of water to slide across.

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MorganY · Jan 25, 2014

Matt said:
Isn't putting two turbos on a bench with no oil in them kind of a bad way to say which is gonna spool quicker?

They were oiled.

Ceramic ball bearings have MUCH less friction than a journal bearing. They require restrictors. Too much oil in a BB will actually cause windage and will affect spool up in a negative way.

Also how do you explain a BB CHRA with more rotational mass, accelerating faster than a lesser in mass journal style unit?

Think about it...the friction component is greatly reduced.

Blade counts, trims, exhaust manifolds, cylinder firing, etc. all have affects on spool up too... I'm not taking away from that. Just trying to get the basics out there.

We have to stop mucking this thread up, let's take it to another section.

OP, my apologies. GLWB