80%, 100% or 200% Nozzle size?

[GreenF350]

I've been ready to pull the trigger on some injectors a few times recently and things seem to keep popping up, but it looks like I will be ready again in a month or two and I am trying to finalize my choices. Originally (as in a few years ago) I was looking to go with some 238/80 hybrids and recently have been seeing a lot of people running everything from 238/80 hybrids to 250/200's on daily drivers that still tow relatively often. It used to be 238/80 was the standard 'big" injector on daily drivers and lately bigger nozzles have become more common. I assume a lot of it has to do with improvements in tuning along with other factors. I will be driving my truck daily to work so at least 80 miles a day there and will likely be towing as much as 15k lbs on occasion although I may drop down to 4.10-4.56 gears if that becomes even remotely common. I already have a regulated return fuel system, GT38R w/1.15 A/R turbine housing, intake, gauges, chip, trans, etc, but along with injectors I will be installing some Comp 910 springs and Smith Bros pushrods and will probably switch over to Matt's tuning. I am on the fence with the head studs...It's cheap insurance, but do I really need them?

I am looking for good power and hopefully 500hp capable, but am more concerned with reliability and driveability, especially when towing. So...like the title says...What nozzle size is the best choice and why? Thanks.
-Aaron

 

[96F350KID]

If you run a stage 3 injector(205cc+) you NEED to stud it to prevent the head from lifting. If you are going to tow stick with a 38R run no larger in my opinion then a 238/200. Towing with anything larger we've noticed things get toasty lol. Running a 200% nozzle will help empty the injector and everyone likes to get the most bang for their buck so why not use all the fuel Some injector builders will say they can empty an injector only using a 80% nozzle. Not to say you can't, we just don't see how, especially with so many different tuners using different PW settings. The best combo that I personally like is a S468 and 250/200s. Customers with that setup also report that they don't see more then 1250* EGTs loaded. Now once again it all depends on tuning. So you should ask your tuner what they would recommend. But with NLTD and Full Force injectors is the setup we LOVE here. All around awesome power and cool EGTs:thumbsup:

 

[GreenF350]

Ok...the studs are easy. I was originally planning on them anyway, but kind of got the urge to cheap out on that aspect for some reason. Powerwise I'm sure I would be ok with any of them for quite some time since I am ok with what it makes now. (Who doesn't want more power though?) I like my 38R, but can see me upgrading down the road if needed, even if it is just this new "WW" they've come out with that seems to be magic. Lol.

As far as nozzles....Can the 200's still be turned down fine? I worry about atomization of fuel and smoke output along with cylinder pressures, but EGT's would be of concern too if they were real excessive with the smaller nozzles. No doubt I have a lot to learn (that's why I am asking the questions), but it seems like technology/knowledge has been getting better and the bigger nozzles are much more street/tow friendly than in the past. Like I said above...reliability is probably my #1 concern, but I figure if I do my homework I should be able to keep close to stock reliability, especially since I don't plan on using the FULL potential hp all the time.
-Aaron

 

[96F350KID]

Yes 200s can be turned down, which is why they make light tunes. That is the whole consept of say a daily or tow tune is to "turn down" the fuel. Your 38R will use all the fuel no issue. Correct tuning and I've seen a 38R clear 250s, are EGTS high...YES. Stick with 238/200s if you plan on keeping the 38R for a while. Stock reliability will be the same, the driving characteristics will be changed I.E chop idle( not too bad but there) louder engine cackle with single shots ect ect. Everyday to and from work, no problem. Driving on large injectors is fine as long as you have correct tuning. Tuning is the KEY! No tuning or poor tuning like a can tuner is why people get upset with large injectors. Not the fault of the injectors just bad tuning:/

 

[under pressure]

Ok...the studs are easy.
-Aaron

Save a lil money, go to DI for head studs....

 

[Cloverleaffarm]

after doing alot of research, on my full motor rebuild i'm going to run 238/200s for my gated s366 and have it live tuned so i can tow heavy without cooking the motor

 

[GreenF350]

after doing alot of research, on my full motor rebuild i'm going to run 238/200s for my gated s366 and have it live tuned so i can tow heavy without cooking the motor

Right on...I could even work with having to get it live tuned I think, although I would prefer to have a setup I can drive as soon as the parts are swapped. Having to fine tune it is understandable. I guess what I am trying to figure out is what are the pros and cons of each size? It sounds like I am leaving some power on the table if I go with 100s, but will it be a bit more suitable for towing or have better driveability with the smaller nozzles? I'm a power junkie as much as the next guy, but I have other toys I can play with for that "fix" too. I really want to keep this truck as a reliable driver. I'm shooting for 500, but that's just a number. It won't break my heart if I only make 475 if it drives good and holds up, if you know what I mean.
-Aaron

 

[Nally7.3powerstroke]

Sub'd

 

[STROKED-OUT]

Also interested in what others have to say

 

[1ofakind79]

subbed

 

[96F350KID]

Right on...I could even work with having to get it live tuned I think, although I would prefer to have a setup I can drive as soon as the parts are swapped. Having to fine tune it is understandable. I guess what I am trying to figure out is what are the pros and cons of each size? It sounds like I am leaving some power on the table if I go with 100s, but will it be a bit more suitable for towing or have better driveability with the smaller nozzles? I'm a power junkie as much as the next guy, but I have other toys I can play with for that "fix" too. I really want to keep this truck as a reliable driver. I'm shooting for 500, but that's just a number. It won't break my heart if I only make 475 if it drives good and holds up, if you know what I mean.
-Aaron

Sold 475 a set of 205s will get you there no problem :thumbsup: There are many people running 238 & 250/ 200s on daily trucks with NO problems. Supporting mods is the key to holding it together. Large injectors and no push rods or springs is a problem waiting to happen, we have plenty of pictures of that carnage lol. Turbo makes the upgrades worth wild. A transmssion is the next thing you have to watch, all that power and no way to put it to the ground is asking for a roadside fun filled day!

 

[lincolnlocker]

250/200s will suit you just fine.. but will prolly need live tunes to make it 100% the way you want it. i vote beans live tunes. .. must do springs.. ask me how i know... studs are added insurance, same with push rods. ww has been complimenting these 38r's well..

live life full throttle

 

[Arisley]

I am running a set of 250\200's, H2E, Adrenaline HPOP, DYI regulated return, headstuds, and valve springs. No push rods, Kinda want them to be the weak link, set up a cheap and easy place for the valve train to break. Sorta like a fuse.

Been running this set up for over 80K miles now. Truck does everything I want it to do.

 

[under pressure]

Egts will be lower on the 200s vs. the 100s too.

Beans tunes are from Johnathan at No Limit, whom started tuning at Beans several years ago. Im not sure if Beans them self actually tunes anymore. Idk. If you call Bean for tunes they give you No limits phone number. My last tune was direct and purchased from NLTD.

 

[lincolnlocker]

Johnathan is still beans tuner.

live life full throttle

 

[under pressure]

I kind a figured they had a deal of some sort since there in different cities now.

 

[PowerstrokeJunkie]

For what you're looking for, i cant see you beating 238/80 injector. I had 250/80s in my truck with a 66mm and it loved the setup, Everything worked perfect together and the truck ran it's ass off, was relatively smoke free, did not need alot of tuning adjustments made (first set of Gearhead mailed tunes were spot on), and i could tow over 25k pounds with the setup, although no truck likes being hooked to that much weight. I am still not a believer in the "200% nozzles are better than 100 or 80%" because i just havent seen proof first hand that mail order tuning is close enough yet. Alot of the people swearing by them tune their own trucks, but that is not the majority of people here.

 

[BigRed97]

im running 250/80s with a 66mm and its a blast to drive(although i do think live tuning would make it way better as i havent been totally satisfied with any of the tuners ive tried (swamps and gearhead are tied for the best)

that being said, if i were to do it over again NOW i would go with 200%....a few years back when i did it, the 200% tunning wasnt where it is now....

 

[GreenF350]

Hmm...Decisions, decisions. It was looking pretty cut and dried until it got down near the end. So basically what I am seeing here is that as long as I am willing to travel and get it live tuned then 200's are the way to go. If I don't want to go to that length (at least not right away) it might be worth just going with 80 or 100's. (Probably 100's from what I am reading). Does that sound about right? The 200's are definitely tempting me, but I will be putting the injectors, studs, springs and pushrods in at once and then putting some "mail ordered" tunes in to drive with until I can drive it somewhere to live tune it. It won't have to be the highest hp tune available, but it would have to be driveable since I think out of all the people I have in mind to do my tuning the nearest one is about 500 miles away.
-Aaron

 

[96F350KID]

With a data logger the tuner can get you close. Don't forget in september Jonathan planning on doing a dyno day at our place again. IMO 238/200s with your 38R. If you run a common combo like 238/200s and a 38R custom tunes for that will be awesome with out live tuning it.