Advice on short block replacement

Jbird · Jan 22, 2015

So found out last week that i cracked a piston and possibly the block. The shop also thinks both my heads are bad. I want to get some ideas on which route to take with getting this all back together. Any help would be appreciated. Obviously i want to save any money possible.

What i think my best bet to do is by an assembled short block. Going to go back with coated and fly cut pistons, cam, springs and pushrods. Then Get a hold of new heads.

Now what i dont know is what my best bet is on getting the short block. Talked to Morgan a little, he could get me a brand new one with the pistons. Also found a few companies selling remachined short blocks assembled for a little less then a brand new one but dont know if i can trust them. Then of course i could always get a full motor out of a wrecked truck that way i could have extra parts off of my old motor. Also if i dod ever mess those cylinders up they could still be machined and that gets me new heads.

Im really considering assembling the motor myself to save some labor cost then let the shop put it back in my truck. Im machinist and tool and die maker im very mechanically inclined but i have not messed with diesels other then a few things on this truck. Ive seen people talk about a service manual of some sort for these trucks?

Anyways thats my situation and my ideas on how i might should go about getting it back together. Any suggestions or ideas you guys have speak up. Thanks ahead of time

StrokiNDieseL · Jan 22, 2015

a Lil insight on my situation, I knew my heads were shot ( wanted Morgans coated heads but again builder sug his shop) so I planned on $5K for that along w/all supporting mods for top end to be reliable & studded. well once heads were removed my signs shown poorer conditions than what I planned for.. upon pulling heads apart the push rod was found broke in 2-pieces which caused exhaust valve to collapse & trap all heat into Cyl#1 which leads me to new pistons along w/what ever else I can afford. went to look over damage blk Friday, mention to builder to call Morgan for a short block built ( speeds up time, but a Lil more cost) BUT builder has his own connections (rudys he says) so im still waiting as you know todays date.. Now I did opt for everything you mentioned in your plans on your short blk build, ported intake, new factory cryo coated rods ect.. hoping the treatment on my rods is really the last thing im waiting on & this thing goes together fast/well for you too! I know you want save money & looks like w/your back round you got that expertise in doing so. But I'm $14K in it now & only concern left is studs going in & no cracks in the end b/c block cleaned up well at machine shop. My bad on the long winded reply also bud!

I say if you can line up a nice/new block & build that way if parts equal out cheaper than these short blocks for sale, which is what my builder suggested but time frame has increased on returning my truck it seems so I still wonder if I should have just bought a built short block!

current truck was tunned 35K miles & sent to shop for upgrades at 60K w/Lil blowby & slight tick but ran good b4 going into shop.

Jbird · Jan 22, 2015

Appreciate the reply. My shop is taking his time with getting prices together on what he wants to do and its really bugging me

StrokiNDieseL · Jan 22, 2015

I've seen nice ones on ebay also but don't know whos the builder behind em but they claim to have all the goodies w/coated pistons for a reasonable price. Do that chit yourself & save the aggravation since you've got the skill set. In-laws own 3 stores @ 60hrs+ a week is why mine went into shop, times just not on my side.. that don't mean I want to wait forever & a day either like yourself! good luck, Jayson.

kyle43335 · Jan 22, 2015

Jbird said:
Appreciate the reply. My shop is taking his time with getting prices together on what he wants to do and its really bugging me

Unless they are just dragging theyre feet, i would never condem a shop for being thorough. All to often shops rush to pump out the work, make mistakes, and do **** work. As long as they know what they are doing, and not trying to crash course themselves in 6.4 101? I say give them a break...

Jbird · Jan 22, 2015

I appreciate the input. Ive seen one on ebay that looks real nice and for a good price. My main question about it is instead of just cutting the top of of the piston where it would contact the valve but on their pistons they take .060 of the entire top of the piston. Would that not change compression?

kyle43335 · Jan 22, 2015

Jbird said:
I appreciate the input. Ive seen one on ebay that looks real nice and for a good price. My main question about it is instead of just cutting the top of of the piston where it would contact the valve but on their pistons they take .060 of the entire top of the piston. Would that not change compression?

Yes it will. They prolly dont have the ability to cut the actual valve reliefs... My guess is your looking at dyamic diesels short block with blue pistons?

Jbird · Jan 22, 2015

Yep i am. Whats the word on them?

kyle43335 · Jan 22, 2015

Jbird said:
Yep i am. Whats the word on them?

I dont really have any info on them. I build all my customers engines, so i really don't outsource that stuff...

Jbird · Jan 22, 2015

How does the motor run with the the top cut so low? I mean if they had a basic bridgeport mill, which im sure thats what they use for the ones they are cutting down already, they could valve relief done right eh

kyle43335 · Jan 22, 2015

Jbird said:
How does the motor run with the the top cut so low? I mean if they had a basic bridgeport mill, which im sure thats what they use for the ones they are cutting down already, they could valve relief done right eh

Cutting the entire top off the pistons lowers the compression alittle bit more then just cutting the valve pockets. But its still not enough to affect compression to the point that you will have starting issues. Honestly you want a stg 1 cam, There is no reason at all to chop the tops off the pistons, or cut reliefs.

I would just check that piston protrusion is no more then .030-.035,, headgasket compressed thickness is no less then .052. Which indicates if the block was ever decked, etc.

Install heavier valve springs, so the valves close, and stay closed when theyre suppose to be, stick some heavy duty push rods in it to compensate for the extra valve spring pressure, and high rpm operation, and you will be absolutely fine.

Now if you want valve reliefs because you simply want them? Fine. As you wish, but with all the reasons you don't need them in your particular case, you have the info to make your decision,and feel confident about it.

Jbird · Jan 22, 2015

Ok thanks a lot

kyle43335 · Jan 22, 2015

To correct my above explanation, Head gasket thickness does not indicate if the block was decked. The piston protrusion will.

78f100 · Jan 23, 2015

If you don't buy a built short block from a reputable shop or a ford reman build it your self. No way I would buy a reman from off line. Ford brings all the blocks back to stock spec by spray welding the cylinders and reboring. Sometimes you get all new parts sometimes you get used rods you never really know. These engines are expensive to build even yourself using all new internals. So be cautious of cheap remans.
My block was bad so I bought a reman from ford, tore it down installed ih coated pistons, rcd cam, push rods, new oem rods, and lifters. It may have over kill but I wanted to know what I had. That was my first complete diesel engine build, get a service manual it has step by step instructions. I have a subscription through ford but you can buy cds online with the complete manual cheap.

kyle43335 · Jan 23, 2015

78f100 said:
If you don't buy a built short block from a reputable shop or a ford reman build it your self. No way I would buy a reman from off line. Ford brings all the blocks back to stock spec by spray welding the cylinders and reboring. Sometimes you get all new parts sometimes you get used rods you never really know. These engines are expensive to build even yourself using all new internals. So be cautious of cheap remans.
My block was bad so I bought a reman from ford, tore it down installed ih coated pistons, rcd cam, push rods, new oem rods, and lifters. It may have over kill but I wanted to know what I had. That was my first complete diesel engine build, get a service manual it has step by step instructions. I have a subscription through ford but you can buy cds online with the complete manual cheap.

I will never buy a ford reman. JUNK, JUNK, JUNK. I built 15 engines last year. 6.0, 7.3, 6.4, and 6.6 duramax engines.
Nor will i buy any engine from internet companies, especially ebay.

after what i have seen other companies put out product wise, i cannot take the chance. I build them, i know they are done right, i warranty every one of them, and have 0 come backs.

Jbird · Jan 23, 2015

Internet companies do scare me. Just because they say the block hasnt been welded doesnt mean its true

78f100 · Jan 23, 2015

kyle43335 said:
I will never buy a ford reman. JUNK, JUNK, JUNK. I built 15 engines last year. 6.0, 7.3, 6.4, and 6.6 duramax engines.
Nor will i buy any engine from internet companies, especially ebay.

after what i have seen other companies put out product wise, i cannot take the chance. I build them, i know they are done right, i warranty every one of them, and have 0 come backs.

I will build my engine every time for myself also. I have had good luck with ford remans so far, we have installed several without issue. These were not race trucks though just dd and work trucks. I also have a couple I am going to build for customers when time permits. Its always best to do it yourself then you know what's in it. I will say I measured everything on mine as I was tearing it down and they did it right. It had used rods I didn't like.

sootie · Jan 23, 2015

kyle43335 said:
Cutting the entire top off the pistons lowers the compression alittle bit more then just cutting the valve pockets. But its still not enough to affect compression to the point that you will have starting issues. Honestly you want a stg 1 cam, There is no reason at all to chop the tops off the pistons, or cut reliefs.

I would just check that piston protrusion is no more then .030-.035,, headgasket compressed thickness is no less then .052. Which indicates if the block was ever decked, etc.

Install heavier valve springs, so the valves close, and stay closed when theyre suppose to be, stick some heavy duty push rods in it to compensate for the extra valve spring pressure, and high rpm operation, and you will be absolutely fine.

Now if you want valve reliefs because you simply want them? Fine. As you wish, but with all the reasons you don't need them in your particular case, you have the info to make your decision,and feel confident about it.

fwiw i had piston/valve contact with a brand new ford block, stg 1 cam and heavy springs/hd pushrods and a wastegate. therefore i will always say valve reliefs with any different cam

to the OP going with Morgans assembled shortblock is the best route as it is warranted. what you save by assembling yourself is quickly swallowed up if there is an issue. dont ask me how i know. from some of the prices thrown around above, he isnt far off in cost IMO

kyle43335 · Jan 23, 2015

sootie said:
fwiw i had piston/valve contact with a brand new ford block, stg 1 cam and heavy springs/hd pushrods and a wastegate. therefore i will always say valve reliefs with any different cam

to the OP going with Morgans assembled shortblock is the best route as it is warranted. what you save by assembling yourself is quickly swallowed up if there is an issue. dont ask me how i know. from some of the prices thrown around above, he isnt far off in cost IMO

Did you measure piston protrusion to find out if the block was decked? Because it sounds like ford didn't, and niether did you. Did you measure valve recess in the head? All these measurements tie into a good, or bad job. Sounds like you did what everyone else does, and blindly slap it together...

sootie · Jan 23, 2015

kyle43335 said:
Did you measure piston protrusion to find out if the block was decked? Because it sounds like ford didn't, and niether did you. Did you measure valve recess in the head? All these measurements tie into a good, or bad job. Sounds like you did what everyone else does, and blindly slap it together...

my point is that most cam suppliers claim their stage 1 cams are drop in. well i "dropped" it in and had issues. if it was a true drop in, i shouldnt technically have to check the things you mentioned because the stock cam worked fine.